PCN issued

1111x

Hi, I have had a PCN issued by a IPC company and followed the advice on the newbie thread re. sending a letter to the PPC with the relevant questions etc.

Of course, this has been rejected with a standard template. I now have the option to appeal via the IAS within 21 days.

The windscreen ticket and their rejection response are contradictory,the windscreen ticket states 'time overstayed' and the template states 'not parked within a marked bay'.

As they have failed to answer any questions with regards to who has contracted them for the provision of their service, justification of the sum etc, no actual proof of evidence, as well as the contradictory information, am I right in assuming that a reasonable decision can not be made in respect of paying the charge?

I am considering writing to the PPC re-requesting the information I initially asked for, as the ticket information is not the same as their rejection letter and their failure to provide this will allow me to reasonably assume that the ticket has been cancelled as I cannot make an informed decision as the keper (should i send this to IAS or PPC, or not at all?) I'll also be adding that any further attempt to pursue a claim without providing this is a failure to mitigate their losses and I will not respond!

any advice / point in the right direction will be well received!
thanks

Ralph-y

If you have read the newbies thread you will know that the forum advice is now to ignore ....

as you will not win appeals to 'skippy'

you may decide that you would like to do further appeals .... which it taken with the above advice is fine ........

there are on further templates to use ...

one aspect of further appeals is that they 'may' help you if ... If ... IF this got to court .....

what ever you decide ...

good luck

Ralph:cool:

1111x

Hi Ralph,
Many thanks for the response

I would like to send a reply to show compliance, despite the ticket being absolutely opportunistic and not worth the paper it's written on

So, do you think 1 more attempt with ppc then ignore everything up to court papers?

Ignore IAS appeal altogether ?

Thanks

Umkomaas

1111x wrote: »

Hi Ralph,
Many thanks for the response

I would like to send a reply to show compliance, despite the ticket being absolutely opportunistic and not worth the paper it's written on

So, do you think 1 more attempt with ppc then ignore everything up to court papers?

Ignore IAS appeal altogether ?

Thanks

The PPC is not obliged to respond further beyond the initial appeal, and they certainly won't, well not with anything to your advantage, so not worth the effort.

You do seem to have a provable discrepancy in the paperwork and the IAS has in the past upheld appeals where the motorist provides strong evidence, but whether yours would be strong enough - who knows? There's an extremely poor record of motorist wins and the (increasing) weight of opinion here and on PePiPoo is not to waste time with an IAS appeal. Only you can decide. Unlike with POPLA appeals there are no examples of winning appeals to IAS on the forum.

So if you do not appeal further it's a likely procession of debt collector letters, which can all be ignored, but to keep an eye open for a LBCCC or real court papers, neither of which should be ignored.

If you tell us who the PPC is we can provide links which will indicate their current level of litigiousness. This can be pursued in the county court for up to six years, before becoming statute barred.

1111x

Thanks Umkomaas,

The PPC is ES Parking Ltd.

Looks like it's not worth a response then, as they failed to provide adequate info the first time

Happy to take this to court...
Just 2 concerns really,
1) where does my liability end with regards to costs (will I have to foot solictor bills etc)
2) if I move address what happens? I don't want to 'miss' any court papers and be hit with a default but I believe they have upto 6 yrs to issue a claim

Umkomaas

1111x wrote: »

Thanks Umkomaas,

The PPC is ES Parking Ltd.

Looks like it's not worth a response then, as they failed to provide adequate info the first time

Happy to take this to court...
Just 2 concerns really,
1) where does my liability end with regards to costs (will I have to foot solictor bills etc)
2) if I move address what happens? I don't want to 'miss' any court papers and be hit with a default but I believe they have upto 6 yrs to issue a claim

Small fry, new(ish) kids on the block. Don't appear to be cerebrally over endowed. Do a search on the forum for them - use the search function but change the default 'show threads' to 'show posts' - you'll get more comprehensive results.

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/E_S_Parking_Enforcement.html

Liability IF it gets to court and IF you lose, the parking charge (£100?), plus filing fee (£25) plus (capped) solicitor costs £50 max, plus a bit of travel costs - around £200 in all unless you are 'unreasonable' when further costs can be added.

If you are planning to move address, then that's your biggest danger, should you miss court papers and find a default judgment against you.

1111x

Thanks!

Will certainly have a read up.
Happy with risk for £200

With the address situation, can I do anything to ensure any papers reach my new address? I assume there must be a process in place as people must move all the time.

Umkomaas

1111x wrote: »

Thanks!

Will certainly have a read up.
Happy with risk for £200

With the address situation, can I do anything to ensure any papers reach my new address? I assume there must be a process in place as people must move all the time.

Set up a redirect with the Royal Mail (but time limited and costs)

Arrange to collect from new occupiers (if nearby)

Supply new occupiers with pre-printed Avery labels with your new address headed PLEASE REDIRECT TO and ask new occupiers to put everything in the Royal Mail box once a week

If you are still having regular contact at the time of moving email the debt recovery company (if involved), solicitors (if involved) and the PPC to inform of new address. Send a copy of email to another email address (friend?) too to prove you've sent to the respective parties.

Coupon-mad

Just to throw in the new idea of registering intent to appeal (the free IAS service of course):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70450198#Comment_70450198

That gets you the chance to 'see the PPC's hand' before deciding whether to bother to do an IAS appeal. In most cases I would say people are likely to still be best NOT doing the actual appeal, IMHO.

The BMPA also advises not doing IAS appeals in most cases and are critical of the IPC (as are the regulars here!):

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/200575032-Parking-Operators-Independent-Parking-Committee-IPC-

But seeing the whites of their eyes in their 'prima facie case' (which you get to see FIRST!) can be useful to help you see it's full of holes, if nothing else. It's a new approach and does not even need you to write an appeal.

And there is a possibility that when pushed for a prima facie case by the IAS, some PPCs do cancel at that hurdle if there are issues they are concerned about such as no photos or a mistake, etc. You can't guess what might be shown in their 'case' but I think if I were to get an IPC ticket now I would register intent at IAS just to see the 'evidence'.

1111x

So, I sent a very professional and eloquent letter telling our friends I'd C U Next Tuesday in court if they wanted to proceed without providing me with the initial information I requested re provision of their services etc.

I also said very specifically that I would not respond to any debt collector letters or further correspondence that failed to answer my initial query and I'd seek £10 in administration fees for any letters sent.

Low and behold..... debt letter today for £125

So to surmise...

The windscreen ticket was 'time overstayed'
now the demand letter is 'not using a designated space'

Still no answers on my initial request... despite two response at my cost

I also have the following from the management company who own the complex the ticket was issued on 'You’ll have to check to see where the ticket came from. We definitely haven’t put any parking enforcement on the site so we are not able to assist.'

Any further advice on this? I am being harassed with letters now... do I have any viable options to turn the tables and seek compensation from this company?

pappa_golf

you need to send a scan of your ticket , showing the location to the management Co


was there clear signage on display , where you were ticketed?