Buy-to-let Landlords - filling a need or evil capitalists?

mwpt

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/ikea-bags-suggested-as-affordable-housing-alternative-20160406107810

A LARGE hard-wearing IKEA bag could comfortably house a family of four, a government think tank has claimed.

With soaring rents making it impossible for average wage earners to secure a home, it has been suggested that people use the ubiquitous weather-proof bags instead.

Think tank spokesman Wayne Hayes said: “Big IKEA bags only cost 40p. Two adults, two children and probably a small pet could exist quite happily inside.

“Unlike most new build houses, they are designed to last a long time and actually look quite nice. Plus, they repel damp and don’t come with a shiftless, greedy landlord.

“We believe there is scope for housing people in many other types of bag. For example, less useful family members that take up too much room, such as grandparents, could be kept in hoover bags for ease of storage.”

However middle class person Julian Cook said: “My friends and I have just been around all the IKEAs and bought up every last bag. But you can rent one of us for £80 per week, because we’re nice.”

mumps

I have two BTL properties, neither is let at market rent as relatives are living in them. One was my MILs house, we inherited it and spent some money doing it up. We bought the other one as we had some money to invest and a family member was in difficulty with a failed business, bad credit record and a family needing a home. They are moving on in August and we need to decide if we want to find tenants or take our money. We have had the house about five years, spent maybe £5k doing it up and could probably sell at a profit making about £25 to £30k. Not sure what to do.

The current rent means we aren't losing on it but we could probably let it for double the amount which would be a nice income stream.

lisyloo

Why should I need to deal with them, I was just browsing an unrelated forum.

You said it left a "bad taste" therefore it affected you in a negative way.
I'm presuming you'd rather be happy :-)
You have little chance of changing these people so if you don't want reading their vitriol to negatively affect you then you have two choices - either avoid spending time on it or change your reaction so it doesn't have such a negative effect on you. Both are under your control and no-one else's.

lisyloo

I can understand people being frustrated, here if a starter home goes onto the market a lot are bought by landlords, which as a first time buyer must be very frustrating.

I agree it's frustrating.
There is more demand than supply for a variety of reasons - some of which are positive, for example increasing longevity, smaller households, people being affluent enough to afford holiday homes and investments, people wanting to live in our country etc.
However hating other people who are simply living their own lives to the best of their abillity is not really very healthy.

We are all extremely prvileged and plenty of people in Africa, India etc. would love to have the problem of being outbide by a BTLer.

Yes it's frustrating but I don't think hating individuals who aren't in control of housebuilding, immigration etc. and just trying to do the best for themselves and their kids is not a healthy thing for those who hate.

lewishardwick

Public forums are not really the place to get a balanced opinion of anything. A bit like cars.

Some landlords are just in it to make a quick buck. Some who didn't even intend to become landlords!

I've been renting for the last 10 years and had everything from landlords so relaxed they didn't care to ones so overbearing they peered through the windows from time to time. Luck of the draw as with everything in life.

Does the BTL industry push up prices? Probably, but there's nothing forcing vendors to sell to an investor. My parents had two offers on their home. Both offered the same amount, they chose the young family over the investor, even if it did extend the process by 3 months.

mwpt

We had a long thread of sentiment to BTL landlords recently.

My stance on it is pretty much unchanged. We need a private rental sector and so landlords will always exist and are necessary. Therefore, I am not against landlords as a concept and would be against measures that restricted private rental market altogether.

But I am against creating conditions which makes it easier for anyone who desires to become a landlord to outbid a would be owner occupier, and those conditions exist through rental cover and IO mortgages, along with dodgy valuations and extracting equity from existing properties fund next purchase.

I am also against them thinking they are adding to a productive economy. They are necessary, and they are merely doing what humans do, spotting on opportunity to make profit, but they are rent seekers, not producers, and they should just admit it.

"In economics and in public-choice theory, rent-seeking involves seeking to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating new wealth. Rent-seeking results in reduced economic efficiency through poor allocation of resources, reduced actual wealth creation, lost government revenue, increased income inequality,[1] and (potentially) national decline."

seven-day-weekend

Most people could have bought the flat that I did, at £85k a 10% deposit is only £8.5k and they would only need a mortgage for £76.5k, most people can manage that. Help to buy makes it even more affordable.

I just happened to get in first once the vendor dropped the price.

It's a two-year-old two bed flat on a new development, so not some run-down hovel with a short lease.

I understand that prices are much higher in other parts of the country, but again BTL-ers are only buying what is available, there is no label on it saying 'Landlords only'.

I can see how in some areas they may be out of the reach of FTBs because of deposits and mortgage repayments, but maybe in that case they can't afford to buy anyway.

BobQ

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I have noticed there is a lot of venom directed towards BTL landlords on this site.

I ask myself, why is this? Surely they are fulfilling a need for rented housing at a time when social housing is scarce and in decline?

Why the hatred then?

Your contribution welcomed.

(To declare my interest, I have one BTL property, without a mortgage, which is let at market rent).

I am in a similar position as you with one BTL property. I can understand the hatred to a degree but it is mostly whipped up by the media in my view. But what never seems to be appreciated is that BTL is used by all sorts of people for different reasons.

There are some BTL landlords who operate 10+ properties as a business. Are they any more exploitative than other business owners? I do not think so.

Many people who own a few BTL properties do it as a small business but their main motivation is as an investment. Perhaps they saw their pension returns decline or had an inheritance or sold a business and did not trust the stock market. Are they any less worthy than someone who buys and sells shares?

Personally, I only bought a BTL because family circumstances meant that I had to live in a house I did not own and wanted to ensure I could buy a house in the future. Others just see it as a way to supplement their pension, or a way of dealing with an unexpected job move.

I just think the bile is symptomatic of the judgemental attitudes that are increasingly common in the UK.

My only objections are to BLT landlords that fail in their obligation to provide a home that is safe, secure, habitable and reasonably well maintained for the rent charged

Marktheshark

Wait until Mortgage interest is 15%, it will be again and see if its a good investment then.

seven-day-weekend

Marktheshark wrote: »

Wait until Mortgage interest is 15%, it will be again and see if its a good investment then.

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that will not affect me personally.

I bought the flat with some money from an unexpected inheritance, mainly as an investment for the money, as neither myself nor my husband were keen on stocks and shares (off-shore or otherwise ), and it's just not worth leaving it in the bank.

However, I agree that some BTL landlords may have trouble paying their mortgages if the interest rate rises. But they will still have their asset, which they can sell if necessary.