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Backdated charges from edf
Loverainbows
Posts: 6 Forumite
in Energy
Looking for some advice, feel like I'm way out of my depth for understanding my rights on this!
I received a bill, very unexpectedly, from edf for over £1000. The bill seemed to date back from 2010, and was full of estimated meter readings! I immediately got on the phone to them and asked to know what this was about, as my bills had clearly always shown actual meter readings, I pay by direct debit, and was completely baffled as to what this bill was for. I gave my current meter readings over the phone and was told this would be sorted. I then got another bill revised with my current meter readings for slightly more than before!
I rang again, and this time the advisor looked into my account, confirmed I had actual meter readings on my account and had paid all my bills, and at first seemed just as baffled as myself. Then he said he would have to pass this through to admin as he wasn't sure how this had happened, but he seemed to have an idea where the problem was. I was reassured this wasn't my fault, and told he would get back to me when he heard back from admin. He did call me a few times to reassure me it was still being looked into, but hadn't had an answer yet. I eventually got a call back from the customer complaints department, and he left a message for me to call them back to discuss.
When I rang the advisor explained that back in 2010 I had been on a very good rate for my electricity, and that this rate had expired in 2011, and directed me to an older bill which had clearly shown the expiry date of the tariff. He explained that they should have switched me to the standard rate at that point but, for whatever reason, they hadn't. This wasn't my fault, but when the system did switch me over from that date it backdated my tariff back to 2011. He apologised for sending out the large bill and said this should have been checked before sending out a bill for a large amount unexpectedly. He then went on to say what they have done is cancel the section of the bill asking for payments from more than 12 months ago, and this now left my amount owing at just over £600. I said first of all you cannot charge me for over 12 months for something that wasn't my fault, so in actual fact they haven't done anything at all for me, and asked if he was actually telling me I owed over £600 when I felt I didn't owe them anything. He told me that the money would have to be paid, as this is energy I've used, and wanted to be honest that although they could come to an agreement with me, they could not just write off the amount owing.
I told him this was completely unfair to me as a consumer, as they had switched me to a higher rate without giving me the opportunity to look for a better deal to switch to, and had they put me on this tariff when they should have I would not be with them. I explained I had looked several times into switching suppliers over the years, but had always found the savings rather small, and not worth the hassle of switching. (I've had a lot of problems switching suppliers in the past). I said the amount I was paying for my direct debits was comparable to the amounts I would have been paying had I switched, so I was happy that I had been paying the correct amounts. I told him they had not given me the ability to make an informed decision regarding my energy rates.
I also told him they had 'screwed me over' as I had just moved home, and had a 9 month old baby, and this was all just too much for me to deal with. I told him I simply cannot pay them this amount.
He said he understood what I was saying and agreed to my point, but would speak to his manager to see if they could reduce the bill further.
He rang me back after a few days and told me he spoke to his manager and was able to discount the bill by 10%, and round the bill down to exactly £600. He asked if this was what I expected, or if I had an amount I would accept we could work towards. I told him I was out of my depth, I just had no idea what to do. He then went on to discuss repayment options, and agreed to repayments of £10 a month until this was cleared.
I asked him how it was that when they cancelled charges from over 12 months ago this only reduced the bill by half. His answer was that I had made payments during this time which covered most of the amounts owing at the time, and went on to confuse me by reading out the actual amounts charged for electricity and the amounts I had paid. I still don't understand how this is worked out, and now I'm wondering where my money I have paid for the last 12 months has been going.
As I was still completely confused and very upset over this whole thing, I got advice from my sister in law who used to work for an energy company, and may have an idea of my rights. She told me I should tell them that I would not pay them anything further, put a stop on my account (this is already done as I have moved and given my final meter readings) not to contact me any further and put a compliant in to the energy ombudsmen. She said that is was up to them to charge me at the correct rate, and give me the full details of this so I am able to easily check the market for better deals and switch if I want. As part of their agreement they are supposed to advise me if there are better tariffs available to me and had they put me on the standard rate when they should have I would not be with them and would not owe this amount. She also said to ask them what they intend to do if I don't pay this amount, as if they take me to court they are liable for all the costs on this. She also said that had I been on the higher rate when a cheaper one was available to me they would not be chasing me to hand back thousands of pounds in overpayments, so they cannot do this the other way round.
I find myself agreeing completely, and feel I am being treated very unfairly by edf, but am very scared about having to fight this. I simply cannot afford this bill and ordinarily I would be geared up to fight this, but dealing with a very demanding 10 month old baby, and a house move, along with all the things that have gone wrong in the new house, and all the work that needs doing here, I just feel stressed beyond my limits. I've searched to see if I can find any similar stories to mine, or to find out my rights when it comes to this, but can't seem to find anything.
Am I right to fight this, as I still feel I shouldn't owe them anything? Are they actually in the right to charge me this?
Apologies for this really long post but thank you for taking the time to read it. Really hoping anyone can give me some advice!
I received a bill, very unexpectedly, from edf for over £1000. The bill seemed to date back from 2010, and was full of estimated meter readings! I immediately got on the phone to them and asked to know what this was about, as my bills had clearly always shown actual meter readings, I pay by direct debit, and was completely baffled as to what this bill was for. I gave my current meter readings over the phone and was told this would be sorted. I then got another bill revised with my current meter readings for slightly more than before!
I rang again, and this time the advisor looked into my account, confirmed I had actual meter readings on my account and had paid all my bills, and at first seemed just as baffled as myself. Then he said he would have to pass this through to admin as he wasn't sure how this had happened, but he seemed to have an idea where the problem was. I was reassured this wasn't my fault, and told he would get back to me when he heard back from admin. He did call me a few times to reassure me it was still being looked into, but hadn't had an answer yet. I eventually got a call back from the customer complaints department, and he left a message for me to call them back to discuss.
When I rang the advisor explained that back in 2010 I had been on a very good rate for my electricity, and that this rate had expired in 2011, and directed me to an older bill which had clearly shown the expiry date of the tariff. He explained that they should have switched me to the standard rate at that point but, for whatever reason, they hadn't. This wasn't my fault, but when the system did switch me over from that date it backdated my tariff back to 2011. He apologised for sending out the large bill and said this should have been checked before sending out a bill for a large amount unexpectedly. He then went on to say what they have done is cancel the section of the bill asking for payments from more than 12 months ago, and this now left my amount owing at just over £600. I said first of all you cannot charge me for over 12 months for something that wasn't my fault, so in actual fact they haven't done anything at all for me, and asked if he was actually telling me I owed over £600 when I felt I didn't owe them anything. He told me that the money would have to be paid, as this is energy I've used, and wanted to be honest that although they could come to an agreement with me, they could not just write off the amount owing.
I told him this was completely unfair to me as a consumer, as they had switched me to a higher rate without giving me the opportunity to look for a better deal to switch to, and had they put me on this tariff when they should have I would not be with them. I explained I had looked several times into switching suppliers over the years, but had always found the savings rather small, and not worth the hassle of switching. (I've had a lot of problems switching suppliers in the past). I said the amount I was paying for my direct debits was comparable to the amounts I would have been paying had I switched, so I was happy that I had been paying the correct amounts. I told him they had not given me the ability to make an informed decision regarding my energy rates.
I also told him they had 'screwed me over' as I had just moved home, and had a 9 month old baby, and this was all just too much for me to deal with. I told him I simply cannot pay them this amount.
He said he understood what I was saying and agreed to my point, but would speak to his manager to see if they could reduce the bill further.
He rang me back after a few days and told me he spoke to his manager and was able to discount the bill by 10%, and round the bill down to exactly £600. He asked if this was what I expected, or if I had an amount I would accept we could work towards. I told him I was out of my depth, I just had no idea what to do. He then went on to discuss repayment options, and agreed to repayments of £10 a month until this was cleared.
I asked him how it was that when they cancelled charges from over 12 months ago this only reduced the bill by half. His answer was that I had made payments during this time which covered most of the amounts owing at the time, and went on to confuse me by reading out the actual amounts charged for electricity and the amounts I had paid. I still don't understand how this is worked out, and now I'm wondering where my money I have paid for the last 12 months has been going.
As I was still completely confused and very upset over this whole thing, I got advice from my sister in law who used to work for an energy company, and may have an idea of my rights. She told me I should tell them that I would not pay them anything further, put a stop on my account (this is already done as I have moved and given my final meter readings) not to contact me any further and put a compliant in to the energy ombudsmen. She said that is was up to them to charge me at the correct rate, and give me the full details of this so I am able to easily check the market for better deals and switch if I want. As part of their agreement they are supposed to advise me if there are better tariffs available to me and had they put me on the standard rate when they should have I would not be with them and would not owe this amount. She also said to ask them what they intend to do if I don't pay this amount, as if they take me to court they are liable for all the costs on this. She also said that had I been on the higher rate when a cheaper one was available to me they would not be chasing me to hand back thousands of pounds in overpayments, so they cannot do this the other way round.
I find myself agreeing completely, and feel I am being treated very unfairly by edf, but am very scared about having to fight this. I simply cannot afford this bill and ordinarily I would be geared up to fight this, but dealing with a very demanding 10 month old baby, and a house move, along with all the things that have gone wrong in the new house, and all the work that needs doing here, I just feel stressed beyond my limits. I've searched to see if I can find any similar stories to mine, or to find out my rights when it comes to this, but can't seem to find anything.
Am I right to fight this, as I still feel I shouldn't owe them anything? Are they actually in the right to charge me this?
Apologies for this really long post but thank you for taking the time to read it. Really hoping anyone can give me some advice!
0
Comments
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Welcome to the forum.
If I understand this correctly you were on a fixed rate tariff that should have expired in 2011. They then carried on charging you at that tariff rate, until you moved; instead of switching you to their standard tariff.
They are now attempting to charge you for the last 12 months of your occupancy at standard tariff rates.
If your final bill was to the correct meter readings, albeit at the incorrect(pre-2011) rates, I would agree with your sister that you are not liable. Had they moved you to their Standard rate, you would have moved to a cheaper rate.
Get them to put in writing their justification for the charge.0 -
Thankyou for your reply, yes that is what happened, only they sent me out the large bill 2 weeks before I moved so my final bill was still under investigation.0
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You have used Energy so you are liable for some charges, if you don't pay for the energy used then the rest of EDF's customer base will have to cover your energy usage.
The question is how much should you have been charged for that period.
One thing that isn't clear is have EDF wiped all charged for 2011 - 2015? Have you basically had free energy for 4 years and then 1 year of charges on Standard?0 -
The Water Council? Surely not?Get them to put in writing their justification for the charge. Also contact the Consumer Council for Water http://www.ccwater.org.uk/ by phone.
No as I understand it all charges were paid at the rate applied at the time but EDF have just realised that they messed up and had used the fixed rate that should have expired back in 2011. They are now trying to correct their own mistake by forcing the OP to pay for it.One thing that isn't clear is have EDF wiped all charged for 2011 - 2015? Have you basically had free energy for 4 years and then 1 year of charges on Standard?0 -
Sorry if that wasn't clear, they have charged me at the lower rate for the period of 2011 to 2015 which was the rate on my bills, it is only the backdated charges which they have taken off the account. I have been paying my energy bills for both gas and electric in full. The amount I was paying for duel fuel was similar to the amounts I was quoted when comparing suppliers to switch, if you understand what I mean. In my mind I've already paid for my gas and electric usage and up till I recieved the backdated bill I had no reason to question the bills further.0
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Can we summarise here. EDF has applied The Back Billing Code and written off all additional charges for the period up to 12 months. So it would seem that the OP has been underpaying by £50 per month for the past 12 months of her time with EDF: hence, the £600 additional charge. The OP alleges that EDF switched her to 'a higher rate without knowing'. Two questions: 'what was the original EDF tariff (i.e., fixed or standard variable) and what tariff was showing on your last statement'?
Mistakes do happen in business and the customer has some responsibility for checking the bills that are produced. That said, the OP's tale does seem a little odd even for an energy company. Bear in mind, that energy prices rose during 4 of the 6 years in dispute.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Can we summarise here. EDF has applied The Back Billing Code and written off all additional charges for the period up to 12 months. So it would seem that the OP has been underpaying by £50 per month for the past 12 months of her time with EDF: hence, the £600 additional charge. The OP alleges that EDF switched her to 'a higher rate without knowing'. Two questions: 'what was the original EDF tariff (i.e., fixed or standard variable) and what tariff was showing on your last statement'?
Mistakes do happen in business and the customer has some responsibility for checking the bills that are produced. That said, the OP's tale does seem a little odd even for an energy company. Bear in mind, that energy prices rose during 4 of the 6 years in dispute.
But the OP was only 'underpaying by £50 a month' against the Standard Tariff rate and they have retrospectively placed her on that tariff for the last 12 months of her occupancy.
The OP checking her bills would not have revealed any error, she was paying xp/kWh as she had been for several years!
Surely the issue is that had she been informed that she was going to be placed on the Standard Tariff she would have moved to a cheaper tariff. As suggested above at the very least to EDF's cheapest tariff, or switched to another company and got £30 to £60 cashback!
If the situation is exactly as the OP has stated, I am astounded that EDF are trying to claim that money.0 -
Surely the issue is that had she been informed that she was going to be placed on the Standard Tariff she would have moved to a cheaper tariff. As suggested above at the very least to EDF's cheapest tariff, or switched to another company and got £30 to £60 cashback!
If the situation is exactly as the OP has stated, I am astounded that EDF are trying to claim that money.
I still don't understand the chronology here but that is probably just me. Clearly, a number of mistakes have been made outwith The Back Billing Code. Might I suggest that the OP draws on this response that I received from Ofgem Consumer Affairs a year or so ago:
Quote: Suppliers are required to comply with the Standards of Conduct, which is a licence condition requiring suppliers to treat consumers fairly. This includes providing information which is complete, accurate and not misleading. Unquote
In sum, on the evidence presented, the OP would appear to have the right to accuse EDF of breaching its Supplier's Licence Standard Conditions. If EDF disagrees, then this might be one for The Energy Ombudsman to rule on.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Thanks Hengus, as you say, they have applied the back billing code, but I'm still at a loss to explain the amount they are asking for. Firstly the tariff as it shows on my last statement before the one im disputing said the tariff was called online saver v6 doesn't state if it was fixed or variable but does say that the tariff end date was June 2011. And yes I do feel rather stupid for not seeing this before as I have looked over my bills many times to see if switching could save me money. I admit that I simply looked to see if my bills were based on estimates or actual readings, if I was in credit or debit, and how much my direct debits were.
I think that possibly because I have been paying the standard variable rate for my gas all along, which I have now realised is the case, this has covered up the fact that I was paying less for my electricity than I should have been? (paying a higher rate for gas than I would have elsewhere and a lower rate for electricity than I would have, made me think my monthly payments were reasonable)
After checking my statements and the amounts they are quoting me for even the standard rates, I work this out to a lot less after taking off the amounts I've already paid for that year. Around £300 less.
My calculations may be completely wrong, but from working out what I would owe had I switched to another supplier, I would owe £45 and if I had been on edf' best rates I would only owe £175.00.
Thanks Cardew, as you say had I been placed on the standard rates I would have switched to a better deal there's no way I would have continued to pay that amount.0 -
Thanks again Hengus that is exactly what I want, to be treated fairly. That is very useful information, thankyou.0
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