Parking Ticket in my own space!

dannyrst

hoohoo wrote: »

Bod, not sure why you are arguing with uber-legal-brain AdrianC.

He is obviously far better informed than you or me...or the large number of judges who have ruled that parking charges are not enforceable against residents...


...including this one http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/pcm-uk-signage-does-not-create-contract.html

So your link...

Do we have a copy of the wording on the sign that the OP decided not to read? As from reading that, it seems as though the defense was fairly reliant on the wording of the signs.

Apologies if I missed this earlier in the thread.

EDIT

Reading further, this was also based on street parking, not parking in a designated car park as in the OPs case. Are there any examples that apply to similar circumstances to the OP?

dazster

AdrianC wrote: »

"Scam" iyho, of course. But perhaps you'd be so kind as to name me one single private-sector company which wasn't set up primarily to make money...?

I suppose you approve of Wonga and their methods also. And what about that nice Bernie Madoff? He was just trying to earn a dishonest crust. I mean, geez, what's the world coming to if hard-working pond life can't con, bully and intimidate people into handing over money for nothing?

AdrianC wrote: »

Correct. They are. Both exist to allow people to pay other people to do a job they'd otherwise be doing themselves. Just like, well, almost every other company.

They both exist to parasitise the people to whom they are ostensibly providing a service.

Still, never mind, you go on your smug, head-in-the-sand way. With over three million fake parking fines being issued per year by private companies there's a good chance you or someone you love (if you love anyone) will get an unwarranted one sooner or later (no matter how clever and careful you think you are, entrapment is these companies' stock-in-trade).

You certainly wouldn't be the first arrogant "if you obeyed the rules it wouldn't have happened" fool to eat his words and come begging for help on the parking tickets forum.

AdrianC

dazster wrote: »

You certainly wouldn't be the first arrogant "if you obeyed the rules it wouldn't have happened" fool to eat his words and come begging for help on the parking tickets forum.

I have had exactly five parking penalties in damn near 30 years of driving.

One was a fair cop - public road, yellow line, cash machine, five minutes.
One was a fair cop - public road, resident only, I mis-read the signs.
One was a fair cop - private car park behind shops. I went into one shop, they didn't have what I wanted, I went elsewhere, came back - my car was clamped.

One I appealed and won - public road, marked goods vehicle loading bay, 30 minute max. I was away from the van for ten minutes, collecting a large/heavy/unwieldy object. The council claimed that the VW Transporter I was driving was not a goods vehicle... I emailed a copy of the V5C (Body Type: Panel Van), and it was cancelled immediately.

The last is the most relevant here... public road, resident only parking, right outside my house. I had a permit but had forgotten to display it. And guess what? It was an absolute fair cop.

bod1467

AdrianC wrote: »

The last is the most relevant here... public road, resident only parking, right outside my house. I had a permit but had forgotten to display it. And guess what? It was an absolute fair cop.

Very MSE ... paying a civil invoice when there was no loss caused by your failure to display the permit. NOT a fair cop at all, just the actions of someone with a "victim" mindset.

AdrianC

Actually, the introduction of the resident area certainly made one hell of an improvement, so - yes - not having enforcible penalties would have been a loss. Just as it would be for the OP.

SubEffect

I forgot to follow up on this.

Final update; I win.

So I got a further invoice for even more money and a final warning else this would go to court.

After being sent around the houses - letting agent, building company and finally the building management company - I got hold of the building manager who works in dialogue with the car parking management company.

He told me it WAS in my contract, under "service charges" to which I answered "nonsense, one can't agree to anything you decide is a service charge". Yes you can I was told. "So a £5 charge for wearing black shoes in the building? Reasonable?". Ok, he conceded, it can't actually be that broad.

He said he'd talk to the parking people.

On the second call (days after the first) he confused me with another resident. From this I surmised that other people were having issues and discussing this with him, and suggested that I might find out who they all were and that we should complain about this nonsense en masse. He thought this a bad idea. I disagreed.

I was then told that we'd "broken the rules and the car parking company would take us to court if we didn't pay and that was that".

My answer; I'll see you in court, with my contract in hand. If the car parking company think it cost effective to send a representative to court for a case like this that they'd never win I'd be happy to a. go and b. bring back the judgement with dissemination of the facts that might be an interesting read for the rest of the development's residents.

My final words: "I'm not paying, I'll see you in court, and that's that, Frank." Name changed to protect the innocent.

Two days later I received a short email "I confirm you parking ticket has been cancelled."

Good choice Frank, good choice.

Adrian, you chose the wrong horse.

AdrianC

SubEffect wrote: »

Adrian, you chose the wrong horse.

<shrug>
You made yourself a big enough pain the backside that they decided not to proceed. That's all.

But, fertheloveofgawd, take the hint. If a permit is needed, display it. Next time, they may not be so easy-going about it.

Quentin

AdrianC wrote: »

<shrug>,.......

But, fertheloveofgawd, take the hint. If a permit is needed, display it. Next time, they may not be so easy-going about it.

You will get lots more shrugging exercise if you move over to the parking tickets forum and see how many threads end like this one.

The op came for advice not a sermon from yourself which throughout had nothing whatsoever to do with assisting!

AdrianC

Quentin wrote: »

You will get lots more shrugging exercise if you move over to the parking tickets forum and see how many threads end like this one.

That's nice, dear. Personally, I happen to believe that parking enforcement is not only good, but essential - and that the whole world would work a lot better if people actually accepted responsibility for their own mistakes. Which is why I avoid the whining self-pity on the parking forum.

The op came for advice not a sermon from yourself which throughout had nothing whatsoever to do with assisting!

Sometimes, the best assistance is helping people accept that they are in the wrong. As the OP was. He happens to have been lucky this time, and got out of the consequences of his mistake - but denying it WAS a mistake doesn't help anybody.

SubEffect

I agree with you AdrianC - parking enforcement is essential or we'd have chaos. You only have to go to countries with less stringent rules to see what happens!

I also agree with pointing out someone's mistakes and in accepting your own errors.

So accept yours here. They don't have legal grounds to charge me in this case.

1. I never agreed to these rules when I signed my lease.
2. The lease clause about service charges cannot just be applied to anything they want. (£30 fine for having a TV larger than 22 inches?)
3. It was my space.
4. The signs and rules arrived after we moved in with no letter or other communication about it.
5. No, I DON'T have to read EVERY sign that pops up after I've moved in. This would mean you literally HAVE to scan for new signs EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I don't take this stuff lying down and neither should you.