Anyone know of a kitchen manufacturer /supplier that uses

ryder72

Sorry mate - but if your research has led you to believe that Paula Rosa use better chipboard that other manufacturers than that is simply not true. Paula Rosa is one of the largest suppliers to the contract business and their product is pretty dire.

As far as I see it, I really need to be convinced why MFMDF is better than MFMFC (high density). Yes the marginally higher cost of MFMDF may be a restricting factor in its use, but I dont think that is the only reason.

I know of only one established British manufacturer that used veneered MDF for carcases (others use tulipwood or MFC) and I know their remedial costs were very high. They have gone out of business though I dont think veneered MDF was the only or main reason.

If there was a good case to use it and the costs were so marginal, someone somewhere would use it as a point of differentiation if nothing else.

donmaico

ryder72 wrote: »

Sorry mate - but if your research has led you to believe that Paula Rosa use better chipboard that other manufacturers than that is simply not true. Paula Rosa is one of the largest suppliers to the contract business and their product is pretty dire.

As far as I see it, I really need to be convinced why MFMDF is better than MFMFC (high density). Yes the marginally higher cost of MFMDF may be a restricting factor in its use, but I dont think that is the only reason.

I know of only one established British manufacturer that used veneered MDF for carcases (others use tulipwood or MFC) and I know their remedial costs were very high. They have gone out of business though I dont think veneered MDF was the only or main reason.

If there was a good case to use it and the costs were so marginal, someone somewhere would use it as a point of differentiation if nothing else.

I am not suggesting that for one moment .Paula Rosa and Manhattan used to be two separate companies .The latter concentrated for the most the part on the commercial market i.e. social housing.Whem I became interested in them they had expanded (presumably when they amalgamated with PR ) and now supply the domestic market as well .I was briefly interested in them but was put off because, from memory, I think their cabinets are an unusual size therefore ties one to their products if changes are required .
The only reason i mentioned them is because so far they are the only company that specify using MFHDC on their cabinets.there must be others but so far i has found none.


Edit Actually i have found a few more, using the right search words helps http://www.frontlinecabinets.co.uk/buildquality.htm
http://www.tlkc.net/cabinets.php

here is another and obtainable locally http://www.merewaykitchens.co.uk/our-solutions/our-approach

Also with regard to MFC I dont quite understand what Leveller means by flexing so i am hoping he might explain

ryder72

This is where you need to be careful. I dont think there is what is an industry wide accepted definition of MD vs HD so when one says HD, the question to ask is 'compared to what'.

One of the companies you mentioned is in our neck of the woods and I would call them 'purveyors of tat' so I would immediately contest their claim about use of HD carcases. I know where they source their carcases from and it pretty is pretty poor stuff.

My advise would be to not get bogged down they looking at what someone wants to define at a HD carcase but instead looking at the detail of house their screws are fixed into the carcase and other finer detail which will eventually give you the quality you are after.

donmaico

ryder72 wrote: »

This is where you need to be careful. I dont think there is what is an industry wide accepted definition of MD vs HD so when one says HD, the question to ask is 'compared to what'.

One of the companies you mentioned is in our neck of the woods and I would call them 'purveyors of tat' so I would immediately contest their claim about use of HD carcases. I know where they source their carcases from and it pretty is pretty poor stuff.

My advise would be to not get bogged down they looking at what someone wants to define at a HD carcase but instead looking at the detail of house their screws are fixed into the carcase and other finer detail which will eventually give you the quality you are after.

That is a fair comment but then I assumed there would be some kind of standard which determines when a product is HD , MD or LD and manufacturers would have to abide by the correct description.
Mereway have been sourced by a local retailer for 25 years and I cant imagine they would do so if the products were substandard.

Maybe gusset reinforcements, braces and changing rail on the back of wall cabinets to hang them from are also worth considering

ryder72

Mereway - Not a bad product but not worth the money for sure.

donmaico

ryder72 wrote: »

Mereway - Not a bad product but not worth the money for sure.

but then one has to ask which product is worth the money.There is so much choice out there its difficult to know where to begin, which might explain why so many people go to the big stores

ryder72

People go to the sheds to buy are suckers for 'deals'. If anyone is idiotic enough to believe that it is possible to get a 50% discount then IMO they deserve to receive the tat they paid for.

My point about Mereway was simply that for similar money, there are products with better build quality, better detailing, more choice.

donmaico

ryder72 wrote: »

People go to the sheds to buy are suckers for 'deals'. If anyone is idiotic enough to believe that it is possible to get a 50% discount then IMO they deserve to receive the tat they paid for.

My point about Mereway was simply that for similar money, there are products with better build quality, better detailing, more choice.

with the best will in the world people make decisions based on their experiences, knowledge , instincts and what the see in front of them.Those 50% discounts you speak of are undoubtedly disingenuous as the stores accountants would make sure there would be no loss of profit,My guess is they charge a premium for extras such as pelmets, kickboards etc..Nevertheless they clearly have the desired effect because people can't resist what they think is a bargain.I would not arrogantly dismiss them as stupid people ,rather I would try and point them in the right direction.
You obviously have knowledge based on your experiences and know which kitchens to aim for .Most people are not in your fortunate position so its caveat emptor for them .The Mereway kitchen I mentioned is sold at an independent retailer which has been in operation for over 25 years .From what i can tell it tends to charge a premium for its products so the the only thing people like myself can do is to continue doing research in the hope of finding a value for money well made kitchen that will stand the test of time. Not easy when just about every kitchen site promotes the virtues of its products to the nth and none of its shortcomings,So we then look to other peoples experiences own forums.Guess what? The vast are those based on majority are based on "sheds"

donmaico

I just had a look at the MYBuilder site where one would have thought the average punter looking for advice re kitchens ,would receive sound advice from a number of kitchen fitters .The first reply that I saw to a question seeking advice re a new kitchen , trashed the likes of Wickes and described Howdens and Magnet as rip offs whilst BQ are ok but worktops not even moisture resistant .He then went on to recommend using the services of a local independent fitter/carpenter who would have access to and knowledge of a wide variety of kitchens and would probably provide best value for money.To my mind the best common sense reply .

What followed was long list of carpenters and kitchen fitters each extolling the virtues of -Howdens, BQ, Magnet and Benchmarx who i am sure you are aware ,are in the same Travis Perkins group as Wickes.its a case of recommending the tried and tested rather like many Gas safe fitters recommend the likes of Worcester boilers .I myself have an Intergas which I bought as a result of several vigorous forum recommendations .I took chance but so far i am very pleased with it .I wonder, though, how many punters would take such a chance? For them its Worcester, Baxi,Valiant and the like, all of which i have no interest in because I think Intergas produce better boilers ,especially as they carry 10 year warranties.

Anyway i digress, but the point I wanted to make is that for a punter seeking advice ,it is very confusing to read comments from tradesmen who one assumes are experienced in their fields , contradicting each other, sometimes even arguing with one another over the relative merits of one cabinet over the other. Reading the thread I mentioned, i am more inclined to go for the first answer and use an independent fitter. Somehow i think I may be in a minority as most people are conservative by nature , feel seduced by the "50% sales" and will still opt for the tried and tested.
The one thing i will say for Benchmarx is they do provide very good free planning service ,so much so that when I finally decide replace what i have it will be for a very similar one supplied and fitted by an independent tradesman who basically works from a van and workshop, whilst hoping he does not damage the existing tiles or flooring when he does it

cddc

ryder72 wrote: »

People go to the sheds to buy are suckers for 'deals'. If anyone is idiotic enough to believe that it is possible to get a 50% discount then IMO they deserve to receive the tat they paid for.

My point about Mereway was simply that for similar money, there are products with better build quality, better detailing, more choice.

I hardly ever bother posting on kitchen threads anymore as they mostly descend into indy vs shed and then someone else says DIY or Ikea etc.etc. same as the last one again.

This one is slightly different.

Couple of points on the usual subjects.

The 50% off thing is pure marketing and always has been. If you buy in a 50% off sale you are getting what you pay for and if you buy at full price you are mad. It works though which is why so many do it.

That does not necessarily mean that you are getting tat. As long as you avoid the real basic stuff you will get 18 mm carcasses, blumotion drawers and soft close hinges and a kitchen that as long as it is properly fitted and you look after it, should give you twenty years or more of service. Which is what most people want.

The reason manufacturers don't use MFHDC or MFMDF is that they don't need to, as the market is quite happy with the standard and durability of carcasses as is, and if you are not going to gain more sales by using a more expensive product then why do it? Yes they are slightly better, but what is in it for them to use them?

This is as true of German manufacturers as of UK ones. The reason for buying German these days is mostly design and flexibility of storage solutions rather than carcasse quality.

Oh, and Paula Rosa. They are tat! Much of my business has come from a particular estate built 10-15 years ago with Paula Rosa kitchens in that are falling to bits. Carcasses were OK but the doors were shockingly poor.