Unexpected request to confirm tax residency - Halifax

Hawklance_2

So, does phillip Robinson work for lloyds or Halifax?

badmemory

Hawklance wrote: »

So, does phillip Robinson work for lloyds or Halifax?

Both - he works for the Lloyds Banking Group which includes them.

akh43

I have been bombarded with these letters over the past few months. I gave in and went into my local Halifax where they assured me this was genuine and helped me complete as I found some questions confusing, ie I had no idea what a TIN is. Then I got yet another letter telling me they still needed more information from me as some information was missing or incomplete, but not telling me what information, and sending me yet another form to complete by 9/4/17 :mad:

I just rang the helpline frustrated and although he offered to help me complete the form I raised concerns about the whole procedure and Data Protection issues and that I didnt really want to send the form back.

He then told me I could simply update the 'my profile' section on my online banking and then I wouldn't need to return the form, it only took me a couple of minutes to do this.

Why don't they just give you this information in the letter and give you the option to do this rather than complete pages of paperwork, I am sure most people with online banking would choose this option.

Pollycat

uknick wrote: »

Update after I sent my letter back to Lloyds -

They've updated my online current account details to show United Kingdom as country of residence for tax purposes and populated my National Insurance number.

Wouldn't it have been a lot easier just to ask me to do this originally?

akh43 wrote: »

I have been bombarded with these letters over the past few months. I gave in and went into my local Halifax where they assured me this was genuine and helped me complete as I found some questions confusing, ie I had no idea what a TIN is. Then I got yet another letter telling me they still needed more information from me as some information was missing or incomplete, but not telling me what information, and sending me yet another form to complete by 9/4/17 :mad:

I just rang the helpline frustrated and although he offered to help me complete the form I raised concerns about the whole procedure and Data Protection issues and that I didnt really want to send the form back.

He then told me I could simply update the 'my profile' section on my online banking and then I wouldn't need to return the form, it only took me a couple of minutes to do this.

Why don't they just give you this information in the letter and give you the option to do this rather than complete pages of paperwork, I am sure most people with online banking would choose this option.

Exactly!
They - and it seems to be a range of financial institutions - seem to be wasting a lot of money on this exercise.

Pollycat wrote: »

My friend's 16 year old daughter has just received one of these letters - in the last few days although the date on the letter is 21/12/2016.

She is still in college, has had a part-time job for a couple of months so opened an account at the TSB so her wages could be paid in.

She has no financial connection to the USA.
She has never had any financial connection to the USA.
She's not even a tax payer here in the UK.

Her Mum has an account at the same branch but hasn't received a letter.
I think her Mum is going to go into the local branch with her to see what they say.

Despite my friend & her daughter going into her bank branch (not sure what was said), her daughter has had another of these reminders!
She's 16 years old and still at college!

EdSwippet

Pollycat wrote: »

She's 16 years old and still at college!

But she could still be US citizen, which is what FATCA aims to discover. There is no lower age limit on US citizenship.

I agree that the whole thing is ridiculous, not to mention a huge waste of money. But it's worth realising that nearly all the ridiculousness of FATCA stems from non-normative US tax policies combined with the UK govt's servile attitude to the US. Individual UK banks are just forced to then implement this as best -- and as cheaply -- as they can.

Pollycat

EdSwippet wrote: »

But she could still be US citizen, which is what FATCA aims to discover. There is no lower age limit on US citizenship.

I agree that the whole thing is ridiculous, not to mention a huge waste of money. But it's worth realising that nearly all the ridiculousness of FATCA stems from non-normative US tax policies combined with the UK govt's servile attitude to the US. Individual UK banks are just forced to then implement this as best -- and as cheaply -- as they can.

So what gives the bank the slightest reason to think she is or has been a US citizen?

My friend said the bank told her that a 4 year old had been sent one of these letters. :rotfl:

EdSwippet

Pollycat wrote: »

So what gives the bank the slightest reason to think she is or has been a US citizen?

Under the FATCA agreements, the bank may feel it has to freeze and/or report to the US IRS the accounts of anyone whose status is not known ("recalcitrant"). Understandably, banks don't want to do that, so getting confirmation that customers are not US citizens helps them minimise costs and hassles in the long run.

If you open a new account nowadays there is nearly always an 'Are you a US citizen?' or similar tick-box in the application. Accounts opened some time ago, before FATCA, lacked that, so these will be the ones that most likely now fall into the US citizenship "not known" bucket.

Pollycat wrote: »

My friend said the bank told her that a 4 year old had been sent one of these letters.

And as already noted, there is no lower age limit on US citizenship. There is also no age below which the US cannot demand tax from its citizens.

Pollycat

EdSwippet wrote: »

Under the FATCA agreements, the bank may feel it has to freeze and/or report to the US IRS the accounts of anyone whose status is not known ("recalcitrant"). Understandably, banks don't want to do that, so getting confirmation that customers are not US citizens helps them minimise costs and hassles in the long run.

If you open a new account nowadays there is nearly always an 'Are you a US citizen?' or similar tick-box in the application. Accounts opened some time ago, before FATCA, lacked that, so these will be the ones that most likely now fall into the US citizenship "not known" bucket.

So how long ago?

From my original post on this thread - dated 27th January 2017

Pollycat wrote: »

My friend's 16 year old daughter has just received one of these letters - in the last few days although the date on the letter is 21/12/2016.

She is still in college, has had a part-time job for a couple of months so opened an account at the TSB so her wages could be paid in.

She has no financial connection to the USA.
She has never had any financial connection to the USA.
She's not even a tax payer here in the UK.

So my friend's daughter has only had the account for about 6 months.

Pollycat wrote: »

Her Mum has an account at the same branch but hasn't received a letter.
I think her Mum is going to go into the local branch with her to see what they say.

Could it be that they have somehow connected her with a US citizen with the same name?

And why her and not her mother who has had an account at the same bank for many years?

EdSwippet wrote: »

And as already noted, there is no lower age limit on US citizenship. There is also no age below which the US cannot demand tax from its citizens.

She's not a US citizen so they can demand all they like. :rotfl:

EdSwippet

Pollycat wrote: »

So my friend's daughter has only had the account for about 6 months. ... And why her and not her mother who has had an account at the same bank for many years?

Banks were supposed to request this for all new accounts starting a couple of years ago. Maybe this one didn't start when they should have, and are now scrambling to catch up on newer accounts where they failed to capture this information? Who knows.

Look, I'm not defending this. I think it's all utter nonsense too. I'm just pointing out that the utter nonsense we're all seeing is a direct result of a) US tax laws, and b) the UK govt's subservient response to US demands that UK banks should enforce US domestic tax laws at that bank's own expense. Under the circumstances the banks are probably doing the best they can while avoiding huge costs that would invariably eventually fall on their customers (you, and me).

Pollycat

EdSwippet wrote: »

Banks were supposed to request this for all new accounts starting a couple of years ago. Maybe this one didn't start when they should have, and are now scrambling to catch up on newer accounts where they failed to capture this information? Who knows.

Look, I'm not defending this. I think it's all utter nonsense too. I'm just pointing out that the utter nonsense we're all seeing is a direct result of a) US tax laws, and b) the UK govt's subservient response to US demands that UK banks should enforce US domestic tax laws at that bank's own expense. Under the circumstances the banks are probably doing the best they can while avoiding huge costs that would invariably eventually fall on their customers (you, and me).

If the banks - and it seems to be different financial institutions - hadn't gone about this in such a half-ars*ed manner maybe it wouldn't have created an 11 page thread.

Reports of the main bank not being aware of these letters leading to suspicion of a scam, dubious quality of the print outs, different paper weights, not the usual bank paper stock from Lloyds all leading to suspicion.

Very poor explanation in the letter received by my friend's daughter.
I'm talking here about a 16 year old who was warned that if she didn't reply, they may pass her information to the tax authorities based on their current records.

Words like 'we need you to' and 'you must'.
And a reminder sent in January even though the original letter said she had until 21st March to respond. That's just pure harassment.

All the letters are demanding in tone.

akh43 wrote: »

I have been bombarded with these letters over the past few months. I gave in and went into my local Halifax where they assured me this was genuine and helped me complete as I found some questions confusing, ie I had no idea what a TIN is. Then I got yet another letter telling me they still needed more information from me as some information was missing or incomplete, but not telling me what information, and sending me yet another form to complete by 9/4/17 :mad:

I just rang the helpline frustrated and although he offered to help me complete the form I raised concerns about the whole procedure and Data Protection issues and that I didnt really want to send the form back.

He then told me I could simply update the 'my profile' section on my online banking and then I wouldn't need to return the form, it only took me a couple of minutes to do this.

Why don't they just give you this information in the letter and give you the option to do this rather than complete pages of paperwork, I am sure most people with online banking would choose this option.

Such a simple option. ^^^^

So why did they make it so hard?