You rights to a train seat

50Twuncle

I remember - almost 30 years ago - travelling on a train to Edinburgh on a pre-booked ticket and requesting a booked seat - which never materialised
I decided that, since there were no seats vacant in "cattle class" - I had a right to sit in 1st class - and did so for 95% of the (approx) 8 hour journey
Nobody complained and my ticket wasn't even looked at
Am I right in thinking that - if you have paid for a seat and the rail company is unable to supply one - you are entitled to an upgrade to 1st class for free - or have the rules changed ?

ctbfc

The rules haven't changed - that has never been allowed (unless a guard has declassified first class or upgraded you) and you were lucky not to be checked!

You buy a ticket to travel - not a seat.

Shrimply

How did the booked seat not materialise? Presumably the seat which was reserved for you was physically on the train. As would still be the case today. If someone else is sitting on the seat reserved for you, you would need to politely point this out to them or ask a member of staff.

force_ten

this is what virgin say about it in their National Rail Conditions of Carriage

39. Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket
If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class accommodation is available, and staff on that train give their permission, then you may travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra charge.

On-train staff will not give you permission to use first class accommodation (or the equivalent) unless they are satisfied that it is not required by anyone with a first class ticket and the standard class accommodation on the train is full. This permission may be withdrawn if a person holding a first class ticket requires the accommodation during your journey or standard class accommodation becomes available.

If you have a standard class ticket and you travel in first class accommodation without permission (which includes occupying seats or standing in any part of the carriage), you will have to pay:

the difference between the price of that ticket and the price of the first class ticket for the accommodation you have used; or
where Condition 4 (b) applies, you may be charged a Penalty Fare.
If you have a standard class Season Ticket, you may only travel in first class accommodation (which includes occupying seats or standing in any part of the carriage) if:

the difference between the full single fare for first class accommodation and the full single fare for standard class accommodation has been paid before your journey starts;
any other relevant supplement set out in the notices and other publications of the Train Companies has been paid before your journey starts;
notices are displayed allowing passengers with standard class tickets to use first class accommodation; or
on-train ticket staff have given you permission.
In all other cases, if you travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) with a standard class Season Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid ticket and Condition 2 or 4 will apply.

so if the train manager gives permission then it is ok, but other than that you cant just go and sit in first class without permission

GwylimT

You don't purchase use of a seat on a train, even if you book a seat, you purchase a journey which includes the use of certain carriages on that journey.

agrinnall

Shrimply wrote: »

How did the booked seat not materialise?

It happens all the time, for instance when the reservations haven't been put on the seats.

GwylimT

agrinnall wrote: »

It happens all the time, for instance when the reservations haven't been put on the seats.

However unless an announcement is made that reservations aren't being honoured you simply show the person in 'your' seat your reservation.

Shrimply

agrinnall wrote: »

It happens all the time, for instance when the reservations haven't been put on the seats.

The seat is still there, and you still have a ticket with the seat reservation printed on it. If there is someone sitting there already, and you are desperate to sit in "your" seat it's a case of politely saying "excuse me, I think you are in the seat I reserved".

50Twuncle

Shrimply wrote: »

The seat is still there, and you still have a ticket with the seat reservation printed on it. If there is someone sitting there already, and you are desperate to sit in "your" seat it's a case of politely saying "excuse me, I think you are in the seat I reserved".

This happened almost 30 years ago remember
As far as I remember - I did book the seat - but the train company failed to reserve me a seat !!
I was just wondering if it happened these days - how would someone stand - if they decided to make use of an empty seat in 1st class..

50Twuncle

GwylimT wrote: »

You don't purchase use of a seat on a train, even if you book a seat, you purchase a journey which includes the use of certain carriages on that journey.

But surely - health and safety takes priority - you can't have people standing when there are seats available ?

GwylimT

50Twuncle wrote: »

But surely - health and safety takes priority - you can't have people standing when there are seats available ?

Of course you can, what do you think happens on the tube?!