Timing of PCN first letter

blinky12345

Hello,

I have received a PCN from Civil Enforcement in the post (no windscreen pcn issued).

Just wondering if someone could advise me if I am reading the POFA 2012 right.

The date of incident was 23/02/216
PCN issue date was 22/03/2016

By my reckoning POFA paragraphs 8 and 9 say that the given date is two days is after the sent date. Surely this letter is therefore out of time? It was effectively given to me on day 31.

Paragraph 9 says 14 days and paragraph 8 says 28 days . I'm not sure which applies here?? But either way the notice is late.

Can I simply tell them this in my appeal letter??

Any help greatly appreciated.

Tom

Redx

are you sure there was no windscreen ticket on the car on the date of the incident ?

if yes then the postal NTK has to arrive between day 29 and day 56 which it has done

if not then a postal NTK has to arrive by day 15 from the incident , usually when anpr has been used

they dont have to abide by POFA2012 , but then the keeper can deny liability if they fail the POFA tests

so if it arrived on day 31 and no windscreen ticket was issued, they failed POFA but you still have to go through the motions

blinky12345

Ok thanks Redx.

There was nothing on the windscreen so I guess I can deny liability as they will have failed the POFA tests?

Redx

not necessarily, it could be "ghost ticketing"

the fact there was nothing present on the windscreen does not mean there was no ticket on the day

does the NTK show photos of arriving and departing etc, like on an anpr system ?

do they state that ANPR was used ?

OR

does the NTK show camera photos on a handheld camera instead ?

ie:- what evidence are they using to support the alleged parking infringement ?

blinky12345

The letter says in the small print that 'they have photographic evidence of this incident' but they have not shared this with me.

The ticket was from a hotel where I have since found out I should have entered my car registration into a computer in the hotel reception.

Redx

in that case you should also be complaining to the hotel manager and insisting on a cancellation, because their staff failed to mitigate the issue as they should have informed you of this requirement , plus they suffered no loss if you were a genuine customer

so appeal to the PPC using the blue text appeal for BPA members, as KEEPER (not driver)

plus complain to the hotel manager and insist they cancel it asap

as they have not mentioned the method of proof then you will have to defend yourself as keeper saying POFA2012 has not been complied with, meaning they have the burden of proof , this will be at popla if they do not cancel , or if the hotel do not cancel, or both

blinky12345

Thanks for the great advice.

I've complained to the hotel but they were quite unhelpful.. Holiday Inn "well, we are franchise so can't help you"...!

The only question I have left is - when should I submit my appeal? The vehicle in question was a company car if that makes any difference.

Thank you

Redx

if this was a postal pcn, you can appeal when you like, but there is a 28 day deadline for appealing, so no need to wait

contact the hotel again , by letter preferably, and tell them you require the details of who is responsible to be called before the court, and what days is that person not available so that you know in advance

somebody employed that PPC on their behalf, so that entity is jointly and severally liable along with the PPC, so you have the right to call them to court

I know it probably wont get to court, but put the wind up them anyway, you never know what may happen if they think they will be called to court

get your PPC appeal in using the BPA blue text template, then start on a popla appeal draft

Ralph-y

please follow the good advice above ......

and ...

start some some postings on facebook / trip advisor web sites .... that might just wake up Holiday inn

good luck and keep going

Ralph:cool:

blinky12345

So I have done all of the above. Thanks for the great advice.

And for good measure I've tweeted the hotel and their parent company, written a bad review on trip advisor and sent the manager a letter.

Letter was quite fun - I wrote Court Appearance in red bold text at the top of it. May not get anywhere but it makes me chuckle at least!

Redx

bear in mind that if they took your money (if you stayed there or used their facilities, like restaurant etc) then they had a contract with you and all the rules and conditions should have been explained to you, including parking rules etc

they failed to do so, so they are liable and cannot just fob you off stating they are sub-contractors , your contract was with them, and them alone

well done so far