"They don't build them like they used to" .... insulating new/old houses.

JustAnotherSaver

I'll assume it comes down to some kind of insulation thing...

You hear the phrase all the time "they don't make them like they used to". As far as houses go, people say modern houses are all thrown up too quickly with no care. Everything is about rushing to meet targets & make maximum profit out of cutting as many corners as you can while staying just about legal & safe.

Having never actually been in a 'new' house i don't know how paper thin they actually are.
But if my house, which was built in 1932 is anything to go by then they must be damn near see through they'd be that thin.


I thought older houses were supposed to be 'well built' (whatever that means?) & not so thin you can hear next door having their breakfast?

So why then can i hear my neighbours as though i'm sat on their knee? And i don't particularly think they're being noisy either (as in raised voices/shouting)

I've only ever lived in a detatched house built in 1805 so noise was never an issue.
I thought for a while it was because all the plaster had been knocked off back to brick in the living room, but that's since been plastered & i notice no difference.

We can hear them if we are in our living room & we can most certainly hear them if we're in our bedroom which is immediately above the living room (living rooms connect, bedrooms connect)

So if old houses are so 'well built' then why can i hear them as though we're in the same room when they don't seem to be shouting?

Also, how would you stop this?

I would hazard guesses at ramming the underfloor with some (acoustic?) insulation & perhaps using insulated plasterboard on the walls? Not that i'm going to rip everything up now, but i'm just curious.

Smiley_Dan

There are no catch all rules, you have to take every house as a different system. I'm afraid that's just the way it is.

While older houses had some inherently better ways of building (wet plastering rather than plasterboard, use of lime etc) there were also plenty of bad approaches (too much natural ventilation). And also plenty of opportunity to get things wrong. You have to remember they worked in a different context, depending on the era of the build.

To reduce sound transmission you have to use acoustic insulation. Unless the party wall is very thick, you'll hear them.

JustAnotherSaver

So out of interest, what would be the approach to remove the sound travel from next door, or at the very least minimise it as much as possible?

I'd assume something with the party wall, both living room & bedroom as well as something with the bedroom floor/living room ceiling?

I'm not sure an approach on the living room subfloor would be worthwhile as far as this problem goes as i don't imagine that causing too much of this sound travel as it's underneath us all.

Likewise i'm not sure the loft would be attacked (from a sound travel point of view, not a heat retention pov).

Keep_pedalling

1930s houses were not built to a very high standard, solid walls and not very thick ones at that. If anything modern houses are better built. Despite that that I live in a typical 1930s semi, and have done for 30 years, the fact that it is in a a nice area to live in and has a substantial garden outweighs the build quality.

When we become to old and dodery to stay here however we will downsize to something very modern.

stator

What sort of wall do you have between you? A concrete cavity wall?
Could fill it with insulation I suppose.
Internal insulation on the wall would help but if it's that bad there must be some holes somewhere that aren't plugged up properly. Have a look under the floor boards and in the loft and any other nook and cranny, like behind kitchen units.

Davesnave

stator wrote: »

What sort of wall do you have between you? A concrete cavity wall?

I am forever pointing out that cavity walls hardly ever exist between two semi-dees. What would be the point of something which was primarily invented to stop the passage of driven rain water in a location that doesn't have any?

So the wall is likely solid, but the transmission of sound, while it might be through holes, will also come via the joists inserted into the wall. Therefore, just plonking lots of insulation on the walls may not cure all the problem, although it's got to help.

The best results would come from a specialst survey and expensive, disruptive work as well, so it's a bit of a gamble whether to go DIY. You may get the sort of reduction that's acceptable quite cheaply, but equally, you might not.

There's also the question whether the loss of space within the rooms being treated is acceptable.

Sound reduction is a large topic. Plenty out there on the internet and many special materials, some of which need some understanding of physics and care in use. Frankly, I gave up bothering, after attempting to get my builder to use some of them correctly!

GwylimT

Many modern homes have virtually all internal walls as stud walls, mine does so we actually changed the plasterboard to an insulating one as it made our childrens bedrooms too noisy if we were talking or watching a film.

The other houses I have lived in were in age range from 1723-1942, all has either brick or stone internal walls and you barely heard a peep through them.

My brother bought a barrat home, you can hear his neighbour sneezing, if you reply "bless you" at normal volume he replys as he can hear you! The whole estate is so shoddy, you can see light all around the external doors when shut, so not only does it cause noise and lets in cold air, it lets in the rain! Then the kitchen floor, tiled with the worst tiles as they all cracked within a couple of years, then on taking them up we discovered the floor wasn't level and had a three degree angle.

dominoman

Older houses weren't necessarily better built. I've lived in a few very shoddily built Victorian houses in North London, built en masse by Irish labourers.

The difference is that the materials used in the past were so much more sturdy and heavy, which covers up for a lot of other sins.

A modern house, built well, and at higher expense than the standard Barratt box, will be sturdy and well insulated from cold and noise. Problem is that the mass-produced houses on estates are built at the lowest possible cost and often by people that don't care about the little details.

Smiley_Dan

Quite right. And when it comes to insulation, it's the little details which make a huge difference.

Anyone else interested in retrofitting older properties should look at http://www.greensuffolk.org/assets/Greenest-County/SGBN/Sustainable-Construction/refurbfinalpdf.pdf

DRP

The trouble with noise is it is all a bit subjective.

My wife always complained of the noise in our old house (c1886), but I could hardly hear it, and when i did hear it it didn't bother me...

ripplyuk

I live in an end terrace council house, built in 1952. Having only ever lived in detached houses previously, I was apprehensive about noise. Not just hearing the neighbours, but them hearing me! Being built after the war, I'm sure there wasn't a lot of money around so I thought it would have been built cheaply, which would add to the problem.

However, I don't hear a peep from my neighbours. Nothing at all, except maybe when they're doing DIY or something. But no day to day noise, even though they have two pre-school kids. I think it has cavity walls with insulation. The walls are pebble-dashed. I'm not really sure what it's built out of but whatever it is, works.