Motorbike Flash Park Ticket.

nickham

I'm in a bit of pickle of what to do. I received a Flash Park fine in which I replied back using the MSE template with my appeal. They didn't respond to any of the points a made out but reduced the fine to 25£. I really don't want to pay it as I truly think the fine is unfair. They also supplied me with a Popla code.

I've attached the letter I originally sent out and their reply. Should I ignore and see what happens? Should I just pay it? or should I Popla it?

*Note I can't upload pictures as I'm a new user.... To get an idea of what the area looks like, google map search "Kew Bridge Sainsburys" and street map it. You will just make out the sign in the shrubs. I was parked in front of Sainsburys fairly near the sign*

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You issued me with a parking ticket on 15/02/16 but I believe it was unfairly issued. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

• There was insufficient signage
The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are or where they apply (e.g. does the sign apply to the area before the sign, from the sign onwards, within the plants area where the sign appears to be strategically placed, etc). This means no legally binding contract can be formed between the owner of the vehicle and the landowner and therefore all tickets that are issued are done so illegally. Please see the attached evidence, which I have gathered as proof.

This first picture is taken from Google Maps ‘Street View’. There are no immediate clear signs or clear markings to indicate that this land is private. There is also a security guard that stands outside the building who has never approached me to make me aware of the private land or the parking restrictions.

In this next photo, we can see again that there are no clear markings or any clear signs indicating that the land is privately owned. As a motorcyclist, I have a little more freedom when it comes to where I can park (ie. pavements), as long as I am not obstructing any pedestrian access, etc. Equally, as I was going into Sainsbury’s, I thought that it would have been acceptable to park there.

In this picture we can see, yet again, that there are no clear signs or clear markings indicating that this is a privately owned piece of land with parking restrictions.

And finally in this picture the only sign, it seems, to be indicating that this is privately owned land appears to be very strategically located amongst the shrubs to not be clearly visible to any potential vehicle owners. The sign itself is also not big and clearly visible at all so people will definitely not see this who are not actively looking out for these signs. I would expect a sign of this importance to be clearly indicated and big enough for people to immediately see it and not be merging in the background. Road signs are always situated in an area of empty space for road users to clearly see the signs and not miss them.

Please note that if you choose to pursue this issue then please be aware that I will not enter into any further correspondence with you and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until or unless you answer the specific points raised in this letter to a satisfactory standard.

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They replied ignoring all the points I made and said that they have rejected the appeal:
- i didn't display a valid permit
- I didn't get permission to park there.

They will reduce the penalty to 25£ for 14 days and if I don't the fine will be frozen at 85£.

Fruitcake

It is not a fine!


If you have a PoPLA code, check it is valid on the Parking Cowboys website then use it!


The NEWBIES thread tells you how to construct a PoPLA appeal and also how to post pictures. (Upload to a web hosting site such as tinypic or potobucket then post the URL here but change http to hxxp. Someone will then convert it to a live link.)

nickham

But what I don't understand is do I have any chance of actually winning? I'm not sure if I have a leg to stand on plus I think I mentioned in the letter that I went to Sainsburys......

Coupon-mad

POPLA appeals are winnable but it is a huge shame you appealed using the MSE crappy template from an old article, which tells you (wrongly) to admit who was driving and talk about what happened. We've complained till we were blue in the face about that terrible template which is WRONG ADVICE.

Next time, use the forum template in the 'NEWBIES READ THESE FAQS FIRST' thread. You should not have admitted who was driving because you have binned a POPLA appeal point and would not have been liable as 'registered keeper'.

Was it here?:

http://google.localdataimages.com/800_WM/2289/22897885.jpg

Where is the sign? Where does it say permit holders? What was the PCN like, a windscreen/motorbike applied one or a postal one?

Please show links to the signs and the PCN by changing http to hxxp!

I think you could win this on 'signage/no contract' or 'no landowner authority' and it is CERTAINLY worth a punt at POPLA with our help to get your appeal right.

Don't pay Flashpark!

nickham

Thanks for that! Ok so you almost got the image but its a bit more right.... see below:

RE EDIT Soon

The PCN was a postal one....

I'm just worried that if I appeal I won't win and then Ill have to pay 85 quid instead of 25... I know it's a scare tactic on their behalf... but it's kinda working!

nickham

I also looked at BPA rules and regulations (signage in section 18) etc and Flash Park have respected them (I think)....

Coupon-mad

I'm just worried that if I appeal I won't win and then Ill have to pay 85 quid instead of 25.

But POPLA is not binding on you. People do not have to pay.

What makes you suddenly think that a sign you did not see, hidden in shrubbery, created a contract you knew nothing about? The BPA CoP is not met by just plonking one sign in a flowerbed and that positioning would never be taken to be a traffic/parking sign by anyone.

I can't see that Flashpark has met the BPA CoP and if signs are not seen then you can argue there was no contract, as in Vine v Waltham Forest (search the forum for 'Vine' to find example POPLA appeals recently with that point).

In your POPLA appeal I would use your pics too, in the 'unseen sign' point.

nickham

Yeah you are right.... you've won my confidence! I'll appeal to Popla then... What do I do next? I read the newbies thing but a bit confused about what to do....

Coupon-mad

you can argue there was no contract, as in Vine v Waltham Forest (search the forum for 'Vine' to find example POPLA appeals recently with that point).

As I said, read other very recent POPLA appeals - the above search will find some. Show us your draft.

Fruitcake

nickham wrote: »

Yeah you are right.... you've won my confidence! I'll appeal to Popla then... What do I do next? I read the newbies thing but a bit confused about what to do....

There are no PoPLA templates so you should research similar successful PoPLA appeals from the POPLA decisions thread and the NEWBIES thread links in post 3.


Use the most recent starting this month and going backwards.


There are a number of appeal points to use including not the landowner, no standing to bring charges in their own right, non POFA compliant NTK (but you have thrown that one away by admitting you were the driver) and inadequate signage.


Post your draft up here when you are ready.

Fruitcake

Delete those images, redact personal information, then post them up again. That's far too much personal information for the rest of the world to see, including PPC scammers.