Met Chief says that banks shouldn't necessarily refund due to fraud

diamonds

LadyDee wrote: »

I was most impressed today with my bank the Halifax.
I made a very small transfer of funds to a friend's account (just a few pounds), and I was unable to complete the transfer until I received a code on my mobile which I had to key in, thus allowing the transfer to go through.
I have no idea if this is common practise, but if anybody got into my online banking and tried to transfer any money out they wouldn't be able to do it unless they also had my mobile phone.
I'm sure there's going to be "OK, but what if ....", but I thought it was a good security measure.

TSB and Halifax do, assume BOS and Lloyds do the same.

jimjames

AmyL wrote: »

I don't choose to have a bank account I am forced to have one! If it was my choice I wouldn't have one at all. I do online banking and they think it's okay to take £30 from me when a direct debit can't come out because my money goes in the next day and then they take another £30 because of going overdrawn and I don't have an overdraft! What am I paying for? No person had to do anything, no cost was involved yet it cost me £60. In my eyes that is no different to someone else stealing money from me. The bank are responsible for the money so yes of course they should pay it back if it's taken and also if they take it!

So sort your finances out so you don't pay DDs when you have no money in your account. Easy to do if you're organised. Then you'd be able to get the bank to pay you rather than the other way round

jimjames

pmduk wrote: »

I think it's a shameful position for a senior police officer to take. Whilst I accept some people take insufficient care over banking transactions who is going to be judge and jury over these matters? But the arrogance of a police officer advocating less help for a victim of crime only confirms my long held belief he is in the wrong career.

A recent example I saw was someone who authorised a payment to a scammer. Had a call from the bank to check it wasn't fraud, they agreed it was legitimate. If the bank put on those measures and customers still hand over money then I'm not sure how much more they can do.

If you're defrauded of cash then the BoE don't step in and repay you.

marleyboy

Ballard wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/24/dont-refund-online-victims-met-chief-tells-banks
Even with up to date virus definitions etc., it's possible to be compromised but people should do their utmost to make life difficult for the fraudsters. Why should the banks pay out if someone hasn't kept their machine as safe as possible?

I remember before the days of online banking when the idea was first discussed. Many questioned this very argument of security.

The banks assured us all with their cast iron guarantee that such things would be impossible, due to their solid security procedures, akin to what they say today about their contactless cards.

It was inevitable that in time these securities would be broken, thats when it suddenly becomes the customers fault.

ChiefGrasscutter

Does not surprise me @jimjames
Umpteen years ago I heard a report on the radio from the Financial Services Authority as it then was saying that after some financial product had received negative press for being expensive/high charges/bad returns whatever..... they found that public inquiries about buying the product to firms actually INCREASED.

Makes one give up really!

jimjames

marleyboy wrote: »

It was inevitable that in time these securities would be broken, thats when it suddenly becomes the customers fault.

Generally in many cases the security isn't broken and it is the customer's fault.

If I ask you for your wallet as you're walking down the street so I can check it because I say you have a stolen banknote inside, you hand it over and I run off with it then is it the banks fault?

It's no different to the car buying scams where someone sees a car that is at a unrealistically low price. All common sense goes out the window and they send thousands off for a car they've not seen and that doesn't exist. Banks don't compensate for that either.

marleyboy

Strange analogy. Someone asking for my wallet is a long slide from someone accessing my bank anonymously and a far cry from buying a car with an OMG price tag etched on it. I am not sure I would hand my wallet over to the very bank manager I bank with, in case he ran off it with it. I dare say it would neither be the banks fault if he did.

In ALL cases the security is broken - as it was originally promised that such things simply WOULD not happen (not COULD).

diamonds

marleyboy wrote: »

I remember before the days of online banking when the idea was first discussed. Many questioned this very argument of security.

The banks assured us all with their cast iron guarantee that such things would be impossible, due to their solid security procedures, akin to what they say today about their contactless cards.

It was inevitable that in time these securities would be broken, thats when it suddenly becomes the customers fault.

Very true. Product launches full of PR. Reality afterwards...


Given banks cannot build PC apps like mobile, that alone is a liability to the bank by making people use browsers which are easier to compromise.

diamonds

ChiefGrasscutter wrote: »

Does not surprise me @jimjames
Umpteen years ago I heard a report on the radio from the Financial Services Authority as it then was saying that after some financial product had received negative press for being expensive/high charges/bad returns whatever..... they found that public inquiries about buying the product to firms actually INCREASED.

Makes one give up really!

Quick claim for compo though, more out than paid in.

Dodgy, and not something I would do. But many others are willing to lie they were not warned of such downfalls when applying and every call is not recorded. For every claim proven dodgy and refused paid out, how many are successfully paid out. Where theres blame there is a claim generation.

diamonds

marleyboy wrote: »

Strange analogy. Someone asking for my wallet is a long slide from someone accessing my bank anonymously and a far cry from buying a car with an OMG price tag etched on it. I am not sure I would hand my wallet over to the very bank manager I bank with, in case he ran off it with it. I dare say it would neither be the banks fault if he did.

In ALL cases the security is broken - as it was originally promised that such things simply WOULD not happen (not COULD).

The bank would be liable for the managers actions if he were in branch or uniform representing the bank in such circumstances.


Years ago I had a problem with my card in a Abbey branch (just came back from abroad) getting I think it was statement print outs, the cashier said I will need to get a manger and stood up to get one and went to take my card with her.

I agreed no problem about the manager and asked for my card to which she said she was taking it to the manager to which I replied the card it its whereabouts were my liability and she could call the security guy over to hold it whilst she seen the manager but it was not leaving my line of sight.

She left it with the next teller where I could see it and went and got the manager.


Was just a security marker because it had not been used in the UK for some time and the manager asked a few last transaction details, British Airways and currency paid given etc etc



NEVER even let your cards out of sight in a bank, any member of staff could easily copy details out of your sight. And proving that kind of fraud that is against a bank employee is impossible for a customer and getting a refund.


Banks may say dont give our staff your pin or our staff will never ask such...but the reality is never let a staff member disappear in branch or anywhere with your card.


Same as if anyone calls you from a company you have accounts with asking to verify anything to talk about the account, tell them:

"sorry I wont verify anything on a incoming call, can you tell me your name and dept and leave a note you called and I asked you to do such, for my security I will call my advertised customer service phone number and verify the account enquiry you have called about is infact legitimate and deal with it from there, thankyou"


If someone has a problem with that^, its more than possible its dodgy. Most legitimate company staff fully understand your need to keep your security private on a incoming call and you take measures to protect such.


Online security is another matter, but old school incoming calls is still a large part of fraud because people verify security and personal details on a incoming call.