How much power do women have regarding access over children in the UK?

LannieDuck

gonzo127 wrote: »

unfortunately i think this situation is all to common, as i had the same position with my ex, she wanted to stop work and look after my daughter, even though she at the time had a better job than me and i wanted to stop work to look after my daughter, but being the mother i had no choice, and was then forced into another job that i didnt want to do, but paid better to make up the short fall in income.

saying that i used to do all the childcare when i was at home so that was ok, saying that it sometimes feel like i did everything when i was home as well, because i cooked, washed the pots, cleaned the house, did the gardening, all the driving all the food shopping etc etc, the only thing she did was the clothes washing and ironing, oh well that's another story entirely

I think if we as a society can overcome the assumption that it's automatically the mother who will stay home with the children and the father who will go to work, equality will take a huge step forward.

Obviously there's still going to need to be negotiation within couples about who does what, and unhappiness when people are forced by necessity into roles that they don't want. But it would be nice to have those discussions based on what works for the couple, rather than what society thinks the arrangement should be. If the dad wants to stay at home to raise his children, he shouldn't be seen as an oddity.

onomatopoeia99

LannieDuck wrote: »

Equal rights involves men sacrificing their careers in favour of raising their children

What is this "career"? People have jobs. I do a highly skilled, technical role in a small company, but it's a job, there is no greasy pole to climb. One of my friends is a research scientist at a very large FTSE company. Again, highly skilled, but it's a job. He'd had it for many years and when his department was shut down he moved to doing the same job, on the same pay, but in a different department.

Going part time for a few years wouldn't change things at all, I don't see where the "sacrifice" comes in.

Perhaps I have the wrong mindset

Mojisola

gonzo127 wrote: »

i had the same position with my ex, she wanted to stop work and look after my daughter, even though she at the time had a better job than me and i wanted to stop work to look after my daughter, but being the mother i had no choice

I don't understand this - it seems to say more about the quality of your relationship than the fact that she was female.

LannieDuck

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

What is this "career"? People have jobs. I do a highly skilled, technical role in a small company, but it's a job, there is no greasy pole to climb. One of my friends is a research scientist at a very large FTSE company. Again, highly skilled, but it's a job. He'd had it for many years and when his department was shut down he moved to doing the same job, on the same pay, but in a different department.

Going part time for a few years wouldn't change things at all, I don't see where the "sacrifice" comes in.

Perhaps I have the wrong mindset

To me, your 'career' is the sum of the jobs you have over your working life.

Re the part in bold - have you ever tried it? I didn't think it would affect me much either, until I did it. But I'm definitely finding that the way I'm viewed at work has changed since I had kids and went part-time, and my OH is finding the same. We both feel less reliable because we have to take time off at short notice for child illnesses, and more side-lined (because as part-timers we're simply not in the office for all meetings / decisions any more). I can't do the overtime that others do because I have to leave on time for nursery pick up.

In general, you can very easily see the impact of women having time out of the work place for maternity leave / raising children. The % of women in senior levels is notoriously low in many companies, and there have been many occasions where companies have admitted to favouring men over women at interview because women might have children - to the point where it's now illegal to ask at interview if someone is planning to have children.

Edited to add: I'm also at a point in my current job where I feel I'm ready to look for a promotion. But finding somewhere that will take me on as a part-time employee is going to be very difficult. I suspect I'll have to wait for a few years until my kids are older and I'm ready to go back full-time before I can find a job at the next level up.

Topcat1982

OP why don't Mum, Dad and baby live together as a family and the sister can live with her dog?

Done.

onomatopoeia99

LannieDuck wrote: »

Edited to add: I'm also at a point in my current job where I feel I'm ready to look for a promotion. But finding somewhere that will take me on as a part-time employee is going to be very difficult. I suspect I'll have to wait for a few years until my kids are older and I'm ready to go back full-time before I can find a job at the next level up.

Ah, and here's the difference. In what I do (small tech company) there is no promotion, or next level up, there is the owner and the rest of us workers, who all have the same job title.

Unless I wanted to go somewhere else and manage (and why would I want that? I'm good at what I do, management would be a complete waste of my skills), then moving to another company would mean doing essentially the same thing, there isn't some higher level of the same thing that I could attain.

This why I say it's a job, if I could afford it I could go part time on a pro-rata basis and be unaffected. We don't have meetings that I would miss, it doesn't work that way, there are informal chats but if someone involved in that aspect of the work is not in, then it waits until they are there or their input is sought when they return. I wouldn't be passed over for promotion, the concept does not exist in my workplace. No-one does overtime, etc etc. One of my colleagues does in fact work part time, for personal rather than small children reasons. He has not been adversely affected and nowadays looks after a major product.

I suppose not working for an employer where promotion is an actual thing that happens, my mindset is just different to the rest of humanity.

LannieDuck

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

Ah, and here's the difference. In what I do (small tech company) there is no promotion, or next level up, there is the owner and the rest of us workers, who all have the same job title.

In your position it sounds as if going part-time to look after a child would be an easy choice. And that's sort of my point - everyone's situation is different, and some jobs are more conducive to childcare than others. Sometimes the father might be better placed to go part-time or give up work than the mother.

I'm not sure if you're male or female, but it would be nice if people in your situation felt that they could take on the role of main care-giver in their family, regardless of their gender

(And I think I'll stop posting now and let the thread get back on track.)

culpepper

I think you need to stand up for your rights but I also think you should be prepared for nothing to change anyway.

If the paternity is in doubt and that is being used to tell you that you cant see your child sometimes or that you dont have 'real' parental rights , then I think you should say you are going to ask for a paternity test to be carried out.

If she is in any doubt that you are the father, she may try hard not to agree to the test because in doing so, it would prove not only that she has the right to deny you any access (which she presumably would be glad of is she is as you say) but also it would take away the need for you to pay any more towards another man's child's upbringing.

If on discovering you are in fact the father ..nothing changes...your best recourse would be a court order....It may not be the magic bullet you hope though, there are men all over the country who have gone down that route and still dont have access.

Maybe the easiset thing would be to request a rota giving you specific times when you do have access and both agreeing to stick to those times. It would need give and take, for example.. if you are working, she cant insist the working hours are the only times she will allow access...equally, if you dont turn up at designated times, you cant expect her to stay in and wait for hours until you do or dont show.

Have you thought about asking a relative (maybe sister or mum)to accompany you on your visits so that there is a second person there to balance the numbers a bit so you dont feel so ganged up on?

Incidentally 40 is not too old to be capable of becoming a mother and some women have had children into their fifties.

textbook

culpepper wrote: »

If on discovering you are in fact the father ..nothing changes...your best recourse would be a court order....It may not be the magic bullet you hope though, there are men all over the country who have gone down that route and still dont have access.

QUOTE]


How does this happen? Surely a court order should be followed. How can women be allowed to get away with this unfair behaviour?

gonzo127

textbook wrote: »

culpepper wrote: »

If on discovering you are in fact the father ..nothing changes...your best recourse would be a court order....It may not be the magic bullet you hope though, there are men all over the country who have gone down that route and still dont have access.

QUOTE]


How does this happen? Surely a court order should be followed. How can women be allowed to get away with this unfair behaviour?

unfortunately, courts are still very reluctant to actually act and send a mother to jail for breaching a court order on contact, don't know why, probably something to do with not wanting to take a mother away from their child, but it is very common for a mother to completely ignore the court order with no consequences.