Back charging usage with questionable readings?

Wozzie

Hi,

This could get convoluted so I'll try to be brief.

Last year I moved into this flat, love the flat but it does have a quirk that quirk being that it's made for disabled access. This means that when it came to placing the electric and gas meter they really didn't seem to care about placement.

Both my meters are outside of my flat behind two communal doors for a block that I don't have access to. The electric meter I believe is in a closet type thing that I double don't have access to, and my gas meter is in a little lock box type thing on the wall with another key that I don't have.

This caused some confusion when I first moved in last March because the council told me that I was with SSE when in fact I was actually with British Gas.

Long story short they had given British Gas and SSE the wrong meter details meaning I was never with SSE and never taken off British Gas.

That eventually got sorted last August, but in the process of trying to sort it they asked for a meter reading. I explained the situation and told them I can't access it, but I did have the meter reading that was on my tenancy papers.

He understood that because of the confusion with the wrong serial numbers that this number was unreliable, but he took it down anyway and told me that they'll send someone out to get a meter reading as soon as possible and the bills up until that point will be estimated anyway.

This reading never happened, and all my bills since then have been estimated. Now this wasn't really a problem as the estimated bills were pretty low, I was paying like £120 for gas and electric per quarter so I really didn't care.

Then Monday when I checked my email I noticed I had a new bill and this bill came in at £370. Needless to say I spat my coffee all over my keyboard,

Upon investigating I quickly realised what had happened.

Someone at the end of February had somehow finally managed to take a meter reading, and they then charged me based on what my estimate should have been based on the number that was on my tenancy papers which they were meant to be scrapping in favour of an actual reading last August.

I've contacted them and the response I got amounted to them essentially saying "Well then find a way to read your meter in future!" so I can already tell this is going to become a thing.

Problem is I'm unemployed, I don't have the money to pay a bill which was three times more than I was expecting and even if I could I don't think I should have to because as far as I'm concerned that number could have been anything.

I'm dreading them ever getting access to the electric meter if they can back date your usage to doomsday.

Any thoughts on this?

[Deleted User]

The gas meter was outside in an external box easily accessable with a triangular key costing no more than 50 p. You could have got it yourself or arranged for someone else to unlock the boxes and locate your meter by its serial number. Electric meters would be in a communal cupboard.These are usually easily opened but some landlords will keep the keys themselves.You would have a right of access to see your meter.
Are you wheelchair bound and too disabled to reach the meters ? if not the onus was on you to collect these readings quarterly or six monthly which is a condition of supply by most suppliers.The suppliers only have to check the meters themselves once every two years, or five years in the case of British Gas. Someone has got to the gas meter and eventually your electric meter will reach "must read " status where they will definitely get to the meter even if it takes a court order to the landlord to allow access to the meter cupboard. I think you should beat them to it and make an effort to see the meters yourself. Arm yourself with the correct meter serial and the key for the gas box and check yourself asap .with a meter serial confusion you need to do a simple on/off test with the help of a friend/neighbour and a mobile. Locate your suspect meter, turn the electric fire/cooker/shower/gas CH on, watch for a fast flashing red light, (or last 2 dials of the 8 spinning fast on gas meter ) turn the appliance off and the light will stop flashing and you have found your meter.Same test with gas meter.
OK, you`re unemployed, the suppliers are not concerned about this and they will simply install prepayment meters if the debts go up to over the £500 mark. That is the last thing you want to happen as you will then have to mess about topping up the meters all the time and you will be paying at least 25% more for your energy with the costly prepays on standard tariffs.

undaunted

Why are you living in a disability adapted flat? If you have a disability it may be that they could not install pre payment meters if this would cause you difficulty topping it up.


This apart however I'm afraid your own attitude of "This reading never happened, and all my bills since then have been estimated. Now this wasn't really a problem as the estimated bills were pretty low, I was paying like £120 for gas and electric per quarter so I really didn't care." has brought you to this situation. It was almost inevitable that at some point meters would be read & this was going to catch up with you as £120 for both in this day & age seems low, especially for someone who is presumably home most of the time. There is no case for back billing to apply here as far as I can see.

The best you can expect them to offer is a payment plan to clear the arrears over a similar period to that in which it accrued. One option for you may be to look into payment of arrears by fuel direct if you do fear a pre payment meter being fitted

Wozzie

I appreciate taking the time but I feel you're missing the point.

My issue isn't with paying for what I use. My issue is that they're jacking up the bill on the basis of having correct information when the information they have still isn't correct.

Correct usage would depend as much on where you start measuring as where you stop.

That first meter reading they got in August wasn't a meter reading, it was a number on a scrap of paper for a meter that may or may not have been mine which I didn't think they were going to put on the bill.

That's the issue.

That "meter reading" went something like:

"Do you have a meter reading at all?"
"Sort of, there's a number on my tenancy papers which is meant to be for the meter but..."
"Oh for the wrong serial number?"
"I assume so, it's probably the same one the council used."
"Ah, I tell you what just give me the number for the time being we'll be sending someone out to read the meter anyway."
"Ah alright then"

Now here's the question.

If that number on that scrap of paper started with a 3 or 4 rather than a 5 would I have no recourse for them sending me a bill for thousands of pounds? If it had started with a 7 or 8 would they upon reading the meter be writing me a cheque?

I can't see them not having an issue with the latter, so why is there an expectation to bend over and take the former?

Do numbers on a meter trump reason?

This is what brings me to thinking about the electricity meter because I've never even seen it, I think I have a rough idea of where it is but I don't know for sure. Now I didn't give them anything for the electricity meter so whatever initial number they started from was purely them.

If that initial number was way off, what then?

The last estimated reading for the electric was 50654, if somehow I get access to that meter tomorrow and the actual reading is 99999 how do I avoid getting a bill for £6340 because the first meter reading they estimated was a much lower number than it should have been?

That's the question here.

All this other stuff like...

Can we just assume that I'm telling the truth when say I don't have access to these meters? Do we really need to start in on the "Oh well that's what you get! You should have been blah blah blah!" crap like I made this post looking for a lecture on responsibility?

Like I hadn't spent 6 months solid trying to get the means to be able to access these meters, and been told every single time that I do not have the right to access the areas where these meters are? Like I didn't spend months trying to stop debt collection agencies for British Gas constantly knocking at my door looking for the previous tenant?

The reason I included that bit about the mix up with SSE, British Gas and the council was to save me chronicling 6 months of pulling my hair out dealing with these people. The "attitude" wasn't mine, it was theirs, I simply followed their lead after realising I may as well have been arguing with a stack of bricks and it's ultimately out of my hands.

My meters are not simple to access, and they are not in communal spaces at least not in the manner you are thinking of. Everyone else has their meters in their flat, yes this is messed up and weird but I didn't design or build the place I just live here.

My flat has its own front door, where everyone else is behind a communal door. There is a communal door for the main block, and there is another communal door for each part of the block (ground floor, first floor, second floor). There are two flats on the ground floor, one is empty and the other is occupied by a woman who works as a stage designer or something and is rarely ever there.

The only way you are getting to that meter is if you have the key fobs (which I have been told numerous times I'm not allowed to have).

This isn't me trying to spin a story this is me simply stating the facts, and this being the first time that my gas meter has ever been read despite them knocking on my door at least 8 times over the course of the last year should go some way to corroborate what I'm saying.

[Deleted User]

ok, I accept that its hard to get to the meters when you have bloody jobsworths quoting health and safety lies to keep you from the meters in the electric cupboard. How are the other tenants coping with this stupidty ? I go to some places like this who have pig ignorant landlords and in the end they get some minion to go and get the readings and stick them on the door with serial numbers and readings for every meter in there and they do it on a monthly basis. I m not accepting that you cannot get to the gas meter and neither will the suppliers.You will just end up with prepayment meters installed with a court warrant if this state of affairs continues. You and the other tenants have to get tough with the landlord quoting what I say about court warrants with access to the meter cupboards.99% of all other flats in the UK allow access to big meter rooms with up to 60 meters in them. The landlords get to realise that there are so many prepayment meters installed that they have no option but to act sensibly and open up the cupboards. Mostly the tenants take it in their own hands and will get in the rooms by their own means if L/L keeps locking them up. There is zero danger in these cupboards, I ve been in thousands. You will not be able to continue with these guestimates on start readings and any future readings.Its not how the world works when buying anything least of all energy.
If landlords continue to refuse access to meters we take court action against them and they end up paying the court costs and locksmiths. why dont you quote me on that , its true.