How much money am I due back off my landlord

Craig660

haf1 wrote: »

You are a lodger with very little legal rights. As above it is whatever you can negotiate.

It isn't about legal right, as we get on well, I am just trying to establish what I am rightfully owed and then ask for that.

The whole situation is slightly confusing as to what I owe.

We are not trying to have each other over, just get what is the correct amount.

NYGiants

Craig660 wrote: »

Afternoon,

So I moved into my flat 5th April 2013.

I paid £600 for rent and a £200 deposit up front.

I then paid £600 rent again at on 5th May 2013

I handed my notice in today and will leaving the flat on the 9th April. My last payment was made

Would I be due back 600 + 200 deposit? My last payment was made 5th March 2016

Thanks

It sounds like you've only paid up until 4th April, so I would assume that you still need to pay for 5th to 9th April (5 days total) so you either need to pay a further £100 on 5th April (5 days pro-rata) and get the full deposit back, or just ask for £100 back from the deposit when you leave.

booksurr

Craig660 wrote: »

Can anyone else help?

even for a lodger the norm is that rent is payable in advance

so you moved in on 5th April 2013 and paid £600 rent. The rent covers "1 month" so patently you paid up to 4th April meaning your next (ie the second rent payment) covered from 5th May - 4th June 2013

if you have kept the same payment dates since then and have no arrears due to missed payments then your most recent payment made on 5th March runs until 4th April

you intend to leave on 9th April, ie 5 days AFTER your most recent paid for rent period. You are not entitled to a refund at all, in fact you owe the LL more rent

whether the LL chooses to charge you for those 5 days is down to him. Whether he chooses to charge you the full £600 because you have entered into a new rental period (5/3 - 4/4) is also down to him, you can obviously negotiate with him to see if he will apportion it, the usual method for that would be a daily rate so (600x12)/365 x 5 = £98.63

obviously the £200 deposit is going to be refunded less any amounts retained by the LL to cover any damage you have caused

princeofpounds

Can I ask what addition information you would require for the dates, as I want to be sure on what I am owed.

Basically, we need to know:


the start of your agreement - 5th April 2013


the period of the agreement - presumably monthly, starting of the 5th every month


how your agreement demands rental payments - this is where you are slightly vague. Normally you would be required to pay in advance i.e. on or before the 4th for the period starting on the next 5th of the month. But you seem to have paid once in advance, and once on the first day of the period. So it isn't entirely clear, although there is an obvious interpretation - but you can't answer questions about these matters without being entirely precise.


You still do have a contract, by the way, even if it is just a verbal arrangement. But it helps explain the informality of the arrangement. And what I said about the apportionment of rent still holds.

you intend to leave on 9th April, ie 5 days AFTER your most recent paid for rent period. You are not entitled to a refund at all, in fact you owe the LL more rent

whether the LL chooses to charge you for those 5 days is down to him. Whether he chooses to charge you the full £600 because you have entered into a new rental period (5/3 - 4/4) is also down to him as rent

I think this is very likely to be right. You appear to have been paying for a month on the first day of the month, aside from the first payment. So your payment 5th March was 'consumed' in rent from 5th March to the 4th April. So the question is what happens 5th - 9th April; you appear not to have paid for it yet.


If you want to be totally sure, count the number of monthly payments you have made, and the number of monthly (or partial months) of occupation. They should match up when all is done and dusted.

G_M

You are a lodger, not tenant

Craig660 wrote: »

Afternoon,

So I moved into my flat 5th April 2013.
I assume that was the (verbally agreed) contract start date.

I paid £600 for rent and a £200 deposit up front.
So your £600 covered 5/4/13 - 4/5/13

I then paid £600 rent again at on 5th May 2013
So your £600 covered 5/5/13 - 4/6/13

I handed my notice in today and will leaving the flat on the 9th April.
So you need to make your final rent payment on 5/4/13

Would I be due back 600 + 200 deposit? My last payment was made 5th March 2016
So your £600 covered 5/3/16 - 4/4/16. You still owe another payment

Thanks

Your £200 deposit should be returned unless you owe rent or have caused damage.

On 4/4/16 you need to pay full rent for the next 'period' ie £600 for 5/4/16 - 4/5/16. Rental periods are no divisible in law, unless
a) you are a tenant &
b) your tenancy started after 1/10/15 (Deregulation Act)
Neither apply to you.

However, most landlords, especially where the relationship is good, would pro rata this, so would ask for that final payment to be for 5 days (5th - 9th).

600 x 12 months = £7,200 pa
7,200 / 366 days = £19.67 per day
19.67 x 5 = £98.36 (rent owed on 5/4/16)

Tansy_1980

Tenants often expect their "rent in advance" to be paid back, but that's not how it works. Your first payment was your rent for the month of April. So, your rent is due on the 5th of each month, with your rental period running from the 5th to the 4th. You have not overpaid.

As G_M says you owe rent again on 5th April. If your landlord is reasonable, it may be worth discussing whether they will accept an apportioned rent for the period from 5th to 9th April - using the formula set out above.

You should get your £200 deposit back unless damage was caused to the property, you owe rent or the contract was breached in some way that allows the landlord to recover money from you.

Miss_Samantha

G_M wrote: »

Rental periods are no divisible in law, unless
a) you are a tenant &
b) your tenancy started after 1/10/15 (Deregulation Act)

The Deregulation Act doe not make rent payable in advance apportionable in general.

HappyMJ

G_M wrote: »

You are a lodger, not tenant
Your £200 deposit should be returned unless you owe rent or have caused damage.

On 4/4/16 you need to pay full rent for the next 'period' ie £600 for 5/4/16 - 4/5/16. Rental periods are no divisible in law, unless
a) you are a tenant &
b) your tenancy started after 1/10/15 (Deregulation Act)
Neither apply to you.

However, most landlords, especially where the relationship is good, would pro rata this, so would ask for that final payment to be for 5 days (5th - 9th).

600 x 12 months = £7,200 pa
7,200 / 366 days = £19.67 per day
19.67 x 5 = £98.36 (rent owed on 5/4/16)

As per the Housing Act the formula is for the month (technically the period which could also be weekly or quarterly) in question...not the year.

R is the rent paid for the final period;
D is the number of whole days of the final period for which the tenant was not in occupation of the dwelling-house; and
P is the number of whole days in that period.

So 5th April to 4th May would be 30 days.

600 divide by 30 days is £20 per day therefore £100 rent to be paid for the 5 days.

G_M

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

The Deregulation Act doe not make rent payable in advance apportionable in general.

Thanks for the correction Miss S.

As an aside, whilst your post is totally accurate, it is also an example of why, sometimes, you receive less than positive responses to your posts (you asked why some threads ago).

By simply stating that a previous post is wrong, without explanation, or any attempt to explain what the correct legal position is, you antagonise the poster you contradict, without any positive conribution to the OP, or other posters in general.

Now, maybe you are happy to contribute to the board in this way, content in the knowledge that your post was 'accurate' where some other poster was not.

But do not then complain about the responses you receive.

OP - The Deregulation Act S40 says:

40Repayment of rent where tenancy ends before end of a period

After section 21B of the Housing Act 1988 insert—
“21CRepayment of rent where tenancy ends before end of a period

(1)A tenant under an assured shorthold tenancy of a dwelling-house in England is entitled to a repayment of rent from the landlord where—

(a)as a result of the service of a notice under section 21 the tenancy is brought to an end before the end of a period of the tenancy,

(b)the tenant has paid rent in advance for that period, and

(c)the tenant was not in occupation of the dwelling-house for one or more whole days of that period.

(2)The amount of repayment to which a tenant is entitled under subsection (1) is to be calculated in accordance with the following formula—

where—

R is the rent paid for the final period;

D is the number of whole days of the final period for which the tenant was not in occupation of the dwelling-house; and

P is the number of whole days in that period.

(3)If the repayment of rent described in subsections (1) and (2) has not been made when the court makes an order for possession under section 21, the court must order the landlord to repay the amount of rent to which the tenant is entitled.

(4)Nothing in this section affects any other right of the tenant to a repayment of rent from the landlord.”

though as I said, it does not apply to you.

Miss_Samantha

There was no need for an explanation beyond what I stated, especially since the Deregulation Act is off-topic to this discussion.
It does not add anything, and is in fact confusing, to comment on my post and to quote the Deregulation Act just to conclude that it is indeed irrelevant.

Threads on MSE have an habit of going all over the place for this very reason. And here we go again.

Btw, I did not ask about 'less than positive responses', I asked about deliberate attempts to shoot my comments down.