Lease car / HP

chunclepaul

Below is the letter i have sent to Moto novo and has all the issues i have had, any advice, thoughts would be gratefully received.
MotoNovo House
Lambourne Crescent
Cardiff business park
Llanishen, Cardiff CF14 5GL
1 March 2016
Dear Sir or Madam,
Account No: **************
Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973 (as amended)
On 8/04/14 I called Square 1 Leasing to enquire about a lease car, I asked a chap called Daniel ***** (who unfortunately is no longer there) if we could have a lease car, one that I didn’t own because leasing is the best option for us due to our financial situation (which was explained to Daniel). I asked Daniel about maintenance on the car as I understood I would have to cover the wear and tear of the car (tyres, brakes etc.) and the maintenance would cover the rest, he said no there is no need for that its only 3 yrs. old and there won’t be anything that goes wrong with it as it would be serviced, valeted etc. before you get it and I will put a year’s RAC Warranty on it for you too.
After a period of months the exhaust started to rattle and the electrics was faulty, I called Daniel and asked for advice as what to do, he said take it to the garage and get them to fix it!! I enquired about the warranty and he said no it hadn’t started yet, I have it in an e-mail he sent that this is what he was giving us on the car!! Needless to say I had to get it sorted.
Since then the car has had:-
1. Issues with the electric windows
2. Dash board lights turning off as well as radio
3. Replaced rear tyres, the tyres that were on the car originally were snow tyres and apparently some insurers will refuse insurance if you have fitted winter tyres follow the link (this I have only just found out).
4. Replaced brake pads.
5. Probably need a new battery as the car is over 5yrs old.
6. No service history written in the log book.
I then took it for its service and the outcome from that was:-
7. Small leak between the engine and the gear box
8. Boot sporadically opens
9. Rear bushes have a crack in them and both need replacing
10. Front tyres need replacing
11. Front brake discs and pads need replacing.
Then last week:
1. The engine management light has come on see picture

The image is the read out of the computer relating to the faults. If you need it i can e-mail it, it wouldn't let me post it.

And to top it all off since I had the car serviced I have not been able to use it really and this has affected my work and even more so this week as the car is in safe mode, part of my job is to visit people in the community and to do this I need a car.
When I phoned the lease company to ask for advice as I was having all of these problems I was then informed that the car was ours, this I didn’t know, I have got the V5 but I thought this was part of the process as to lease it to someone they needed to insure it and thus needed the V5 to say yes this is the car I will be insuring and I am legally allowed to do it because it needed to be in my name.
I then looked into ending the agreement as per my right half way through which going by the paperwork from MOTONOVO which stated that the total amount would be £11,775.00 so the termination amount would be £ 5887.50, we have paid to date approx. £5454.48 leaving us with a shortfall to cover of £433.02 approx with the car returning to Square 1 Leasing, we would have a termination mark on our credit history. But when I phoned I was told that the full amount we had to pay due to INTEREST was £16836.99, I was shocked as I was never told about any interest the information I was sent I went through with Daniel and I asked what it meant he said it’s nothing to worry about the figure on the sheet are just standard figure it outlines you rights and the process for early termination which he said is half the total amount you would pay for the lease which he said is worked out in line with the depreciation of the car and when we return it he would then sell it on again and all this is taken into account.
Since looking through my paperwork with a fine tooth comb after I had a conversation with a lady at MOTONOVO I have now found that I have been sent paperwork relating to a different car; it’s for an s-max with the reg of ****** chassis number ***************and no paperwork covering my current car which reg is ******?
I also enquired about the figures on the agreement with Daniel, he said nothing of interest here is a pic of the “What you are due to pay us”

The picture didn't copy across but it was basically sating what was written below

Daniel said that we would pay £227.57 a month for 48 months which is £10923.36 followed by the payment of £5201.50 which would make the total of £16124.86. Now... I have 2 email’s from Daniel stating that the payment of £5201.50 is there if at the end of the agreement we wanted to buy the car to keep it, if we didn’t and he states we don’t have to then the car would return to him and the agreement would be terminated after therefore he was making a profit of £5201.50 less the £851.64 shortfall between the 48 payments we made and the initial £11775.00 and on top of this I am paying £237.57 not £227.57 and I don’t have any paperwork from Daniel stating this amount where has the extra £10.00 come from.
Therefore I believe that I was sold this Hire purchase agreement without my full knowledge and I was given a car which has turned out not fit for purpose and a risk to me and my family, the car is also causing issues with my employer as I am not able to currently fulfil my job role to the fullest as I am not able to safely use the car for the purpose of which we got it. As of the 2/03/16 I am unable to use the car at all.
Now what I am being told that I have now got a car which is not fit for purpose and I have to either get it fixed at a great cost to myself which on top of paying £237.57 a month and a family I am not in a position to do, this is part of the reason I got a lease car in the first place as we pay a monthly amount and just cover wear and tear and this is what is asked for when I went to Square 1 leasing and also through Square 1 MOTONOVO to get a lease car (as previously stated) or I can terminate the contract half way through and not only have a black mark on my credit history but also be liable for £3559.00 Approx. plus the removal of the car costs plus any work that needs to be done on it. Or I can just stop paying for it and the default and get taken to court end up with court fee on top of the amount to pay back.
Also who would pay upward of £16836.99 for a car that we don’t get to see or look at test before the purchase!!
Now considering I have by my calculations paid £5461.68 so far plus work I have already had done on the car, an impeccable payment history, and the car currently being worth upward of £8,000 making a total of £13461.68 approx. making a profit for yourselves of £3500.00 approx. and the fact I have been miss lead and miss sold this agreement and been pulled into a hire purchase instead of a lease I believe as a show of good grace from a huge company such as yourselves you will take the car back and cease my agreement with yourself with no mark against my name, the car is in very good condition, I will completely valet the car before returning it and I will replace or give you the money to cover the breaks and the tyres as this would be part of the wear and tear on an lease agreement as per keeping up with the agreement thought we were on.
I understand that under the above legislation, it is your responsibility to resolve the matter and would therefore ask that this is done within the next 7-14 days. If we cannot come to some arrangement then I will be going to the Financial Conduct Authority as per the advice form the Citizens Advice Bureau and the through the ADR Scheme.
I look forward to hearing from you soon
Yours faithfully

Mr Paul Hardwick

Thanks in advance

WellKnownSid

There is no right to terminate "half way through".

You may have a right to terminate and only be liable for 50% of the total amount due (which is over £16k).

The FCA won't be interested in what Daniel may or may not have said or agreed to - it comes down to what exactly was written on the paperwork you signed?

chunclepaul

It stated on the paperwork as follows:-

Your payments under the hire purchase agreement and personal loan for the financed products and services/accessories will be a deposit of £0.00 and a part exchange of £0.00, followed by 48 monthly payments of £227.57 (actual payments are £237.57) starting at 1 month after execution of the documents, followed by 1 monthly payment of £5201.50 making the total you will pay £16124.86. The final payment will include an option to purchase fee of £399.00.

I have an email from Daniel stating that the £5201.50 is an optional payment if we want to keep the car, if not then will will return it and end the agreement.

So are you saying we don't have a leg to stand on with regards to getting the result we wanted (I appreciate that to prove what someone said is impossible), even though the paperwork is wrong, the payments are wrong (all documented). Do you not think they would write off the agreement as they still would make a profit?

Thanks for the reply

flashg67

Long post so I may have missed some points and hope you don't find this rude, but to be blunt, I don't think you understand what you've signed up for, not withstanding that I can't see the paperwork, or any errors therein. The possibility of owning the car at the end sounds like a personal contract hire deal, which is not quite the same as a lease.

http://www.square1leasing.com/news/which-leasing-option-suits-you

- The total payable including interest and the final purchase option is the total used to work out the 50% termination amount from.

You still owe that money, all the final option cost is, is an option to purchase at that price at the end, or a minimum value they'll give you which effectively settles the agreement. This is normal, whether it was made clear or you understood at the time is irrelevant. Your annual statement should show what you owe & payments made - you should get one every year.

Is/was the car under manufacturer warranty?
Did you get any documents for the additional RAC warranty - this may only start after the manufacturer warranty expires.
(working on Square 1 showing their cars are ex-demo)
Does your paperwork show that maintenance is included - it usually is either 'all in', inc servicing, brakes, tyres etc, or not included at all and is usually itemised as a seperate payment on the finance document.

If not, many of the issues sound like wear & tear, or hazards of running a used car.

If the paperwork does relate to a different car, this may be a way out, but, you've had it 2 years - why didn't you check before now!

Your sums don't quite add up either - you may have paid them £5k so far and still have a car worth £8k, but they gave you a car worth what, say £11k or more that they had to buy in the first place so they could sell it to you

You'll need to wit 8 weeks for a final response before you can go to the FCA

neilmcl

flashg67 wrote: »

Long post so I may have missed some points and hope you don't find this rude, but to be blunt, I don't think you understand what you've signed up for, not withstanding that I can't see the paperwork, or any errors therein. The possibility of owning the car at the end sounds like a personal contract hire deal, which is not quite the same as a lease.

Not trying to be rude but I'm not sure you know either. A Personal Contract Hire deal IS exactly the same as a lease. A Personal Contract PURCHASE (PCP) deal is the type of finance that will allow you to own the car at the end, should you so wish.

Apologies in advance if that's what you were trying to say

chunclepaul

Thanks again for your time in replying and your honesty i really appreciate it.

Your right i didn't know what i was signing for, i said to the chap "i want a lease car that i pay a monthly amount for and give back at the end, i don't want to buy the car" I asked him if i needed maintenance and he said "no it fine its only 3 years old nothing will go wrong".
The paperwork was emailed through and rushed as he said that we need to get this signed as the car might go so we need to be quick.
I did look through the forms and queried the costs which i mentioned in the first post.
The only paperwork i received was the agreement i think 2 of them, some terms and conditions.
Later when i needed too i found out the car had no service history in the log book, i was told that there is one but im currently waiting for it to be emailed to me,been over a week.
The only paperwork for the RAC Warranty was verbal and a mention in an email, but when i inquired about using it, he said it doesn't cover this car because it hadn't come in to effect yet.

So basically your saying, i have to get the car fixed and there is a slim (but tiny) chance of wiggling out of this contract. They would still be making a profit if they were to cancel the agreement.

So my choices are, fix the car at huge cost and continue to pay them, running the risk that more will keep going wrong with it, voluntary termination cost of getting car fixed plus the £3k+ shortfall, default and have huge bill at the end and a mark on my credit history.

Well a very expensive lesson in life, business's, leasing, hp, getting what people say written down and paperwork.

If anyone wants me to assist them in negotiating a contract please let me know lol!!