New Driver needs MPV!

gilbert_and_sullivan

The C4 GP is not the simple Berlingo based vehicle that the previous Xsara Pic was, the auto is the automated manual and the parking brake electronic and depending on spec whether you get a spare wheel or a can of glue plus toy pump.

My money would probably go on a Verso with the 1.8 petrol and CVT box.

If the majority of motoring is localish, then it would probably be best to avoid Diesel with its DPF problems, any fuel economy gains over petrol wiped out instantly should the thing play up as it most likely will.

RichardD1970

Strider590 wrote: »

Better off with a Mondeo type of car, you get all the seats you need AND a tonne of boot space + reliability + high speed stability (great on motorways) + better MPG, etc etc etc.

The only reason they sell MPVs is because of clever marketing making people THINK they need them.

Same goes for 4x4s, BMW were using Facebook to advertise their new 4x4 system, I made one comment about winters tyres and within 1 hour my post had been removed.

It's all marketing BS at it's finest, create something and then make people believe they need it..... Instead of creating something that people genuinely do need.

You do like making bold, sweeping statements based on your own prejudices don't you?

I need a 7 seater to transport the people I need to (Me, wife, two kids and my elderly in-laws who don't drive). It's also useful for my wife's frequent trips to Ikea;).

Yes if we didn't have one there would be alternative arrangements that could be made, but that would involve lots of hassle, time and money.


OP, we have a 57 reg C4 Grand Picasso, 1.6 Hdi EGS.

Now some (opinionated) people will tell you that this car is the spawn of the devil, being French and having a EGS gear box, but we have had it for four years without a problem.

It will fit 7 adults (just) although luggage space is limited with all seats up (solved by having a roof box).

We manage to take six of us, in relative comfort, on holiday with all the luggage and paraphernalia need for a fortnight self catering.

When looking at these types of car we found the C4 to be the most spacious and provide the best value for money re. equipment etc.

Never had a problem with DPF despite it mainly being used for shot town trips although that may be down to luck (or maybe it was removed by the last owner?) and would seriously consider a petrol instead next time.

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

I'd personally either go for the Grand C4 Picasso petrol OR a Zafira 1.8i petrol.

Both will be as cheap as chips with petrol engines, and what you'll lose in economy you'll gain in peace of mind and simplicity.

Motorguy has hit the nail on the head.

Though I would also consider the 1.6i Zafira.

I would go manual in the C4 as the gearbox is stupid and likely to cause you financial pain of an extremely kind when it plays up, the jerky gearchanges are not playing up they are like that new.

I drove Zafiras for years, the only real issue is with the DPF on the diesels, they are still used everyday by the LAS and have been since early 06, though most of the 55 plates are getting sold off now.

My sister has owned both and prefers the Zafira, though she had a petrol C4 Grand Picasso and a 1.7 CDTI Zafira so not a direct comparison, she doesn't live in London and her daily commute is a good 15miles each way.

You will struggle to find an Automatic mk2 Zafira as they only came in 120bhp 1.9CDTI, 150 1.9 CDTI and the 2.2 petrol.

To be honest the driving position makes them a doddle to drive, the only caveat is they have a blind spot caused by the A Pillar which you need to take into account when exiting junctions at an angle.

I am 6'1" and I found them roomy, much better than the Octavia that they now use in London which despite being an estate don't have as much room in the cabin or in the boot, the boots a bit longer I think but not as high.

You can also sit on the bootlip with the boot open on a Zafira when it is raining, not a perfect perch like in a Range Rover but I thought it was handy.

bigjl

wrightk wrote: »

Sorry typo.

VX say 80 in the book (or at least they did with mine) but even when hundreds of dealers (both indy and main) are screaming 40 due to so many catastrophic failures of engines, the advice is still 80

:mad:

Funnily enough my old work has hundreds of Zafiras and they are maintained in house.

One thing I have never heard of is engine failure due to an issue with the cambelt.

Diesel contamination due to repeated incomplete DPF Regens? Now we are talking.

Though they seem to have got to the route of the problems now and they are much more reliable.

The engines in the 515cdi and 516cdi Mercs is a different story, they proved so unreliable that the new vehicles are now the 3.0v6, the 2.2 versions were leased to reduce CO2 Emissions or Fuel Consumption. Which didn't work as they engines were constantly hammered due to lack of power.

I would not advise anybody to buy a diesel Zafira though to be honest.

And I am sure there are many owners that have no problems with their C4, but it is disingenuous to give advice based on one experince when the vehicle has common faults, common doesn't mean they will all suffer from them, but it does mean there is a risk that needs to be mentioned.

The 1.6 HDi engine has common faults as does the EGS gearbox. This isn't opinion it is fact.

1.6 and 1.8 petrol Vauxhall engines are robust and simple, maybe not as robust as the old 8V versions.

The mention of the Verso is interesting, the only issue is when you buy used there are very few to chose from and when I have seen one it has always had the air of an abused vehicle that has been polished to sell. I don't doubt for one minute they will be reliable if slightly bland.

I would probably take the chance on a C4 Picasso or Renault Scenic before a Verso.

At least they are nice to look at and sit in.

The French do comfort rather well in my opinion.

Bewar3them00n

I checked the reliability index for the C4 Grand Picasso (146) the C4 Picasso (161) and the Fod C-Max (57) that's quite a difference! Average repair bill was £50 more for the C4 GP also and about £100 for the C4 Picasso!
I don't like the Vauxhall, never have, so I won't be shortlisting that one.
So far the Ford C-Max the C4 Grand Picasso, and the C4 Picasso are on it.
Anybody know how the automatic is on the C Max? I'm leaning towards the Manual TCDi C Max at the moment, feel free to throw a spanner I'm my thinking people! I'm a sponge, soaking up info at the moment!

wrightk

bigjl wrote: »

Funnily enough my old work has hundreds of Zafiras and they are maintained in house.

One thing I have never heard of is engine failure due to an issue with the cambelt.

As far as im aware it was more to do with premature water pump seizure causing the timing belt to snap

Pretty sure it was common knowledge with the diesels?

wrightk

Bewar3them00n wrote: »

I checked the reliability index for the C4 Grand Picasso (146) the C4 Picasso (161) and the Fod C-Max (57) that's quite a difference! Average repair bill was £50 more for the C4 GP also and about £100 for the C4 Picasso!
I don't like the Vauxhall, never have, so I won't be shortlisting that one.
So far the Ford C-Max the C4 Grand Picasso, and the C4 Picasso are on it.
Anybody know how the automatic is on the C Max? I'm leaning towards the Manual TCDi C Max at the moment, feel free to throw a spanner I'm my thinking people! I'm a sponge, soaking up info at the moment!

The petrol c max are considered to be far more reliable than the diesels. They are cheap to repair and there is little to go wrong.

The only problem you may come across is MPG. The petrol is a bit of a guzzler. On average i used to get 38-39MPG on a mixture of start stop,60 roads and occasional motorway use. However i preferred that little bit of extra expense for more reliability compared to risking it with a diesel and facing a potential big bill

wrightk

Bewar3them00n wrote: »

I don't like the Vauxhall, never have, so I won't be shortlisting that one.

I had four, it took me that many to realise there are better options. The thing is everyone raves about the zafira seating arrangements. I think they are completely impractical if you have fixed car seats.Because the whole rear seat is a bench, Nobody can access the rear unless they climb over the middle seat (with it half folded down) or unless you access via the boot in which case only 6 seats can be up!

There are some other really clever 7 seaters out there. The french are quite good at that, and the japanese. My mazda has the same arrangement as the vauxhall but each seat is individual.Meaning the middle seat can be moved out of the way for access to the rear and folded down into the passenger rear seat, and the drivers rear seat hides a fold out picnic/centre console in place of the gap if the middle chair is not in use,plus it looks and drives like a car and not a van

Worth considering these options if your set on a 7 seater

motorguy

wrightk wrote: »

Sorry typo.

VX say 80 in the book (or at least they did with mine) but even when hundreds of dealers (both indy and main) are screaming 40 due to so many catastrophic failures of engines, the advice is still 80

:mad:

Yes, once you factor in DPF problems - 70mph in 6th gear is too low revving for the DPF to clean itself - injectors, turbo failure and floating flywheel failures generally before 80K miles, i'd rather !!!! on my hands and clap than own one.

motorguy

wrightk wrote: »

As far as im aware it was more to do with premature water pump seizure causing the timing belt to snap

Pretty sure it was common knowledge with the diesels?

Like Bigjl, i have never come across it.

I used to sell cars and we bought a load of trade ins from a local Vauxhall dealer. Never had any issues with cambelt / pump failure

Now i know its a risk though, its just another reason why i'd never buy one.