Help Please - Flat Conversion Without Planning or Builing Regs

Doozergirl

Boler1985 wrote: »

Thanks for the reality check and I'll take this up with him.

From his point of view though how does he know the vendor is being honest. For all anyone knows the vendor could have done the conversion 5 years ago and is just claiming it was many years ago. The point is there a not records.

You're not getting it. There are records.

I'm not a total nerd on the subject, but the Building Act of 1984 is what introduced Building Regulations are we know them. It is utterly impossible to search a database of a system that was started in 1984 for a project started in 1977!

As I understand it, before that date, building standards were monitored on a local level and standards were local, not national. You have a record of it being registered against the relevant local act at the time, in 1977. That is as good as it gets!

Apart from the fact that BC couldn't give a flying rat's !!! about 40 year old conversions, and you have appropriate evidence, how could they ever try and enforce when the legal acts applicable to them now didn't apply then?

Your comments about it possibly being done 5 years ago are preposterous. There are title documents - the leases and plans will all be dated!! Anyone could find physical evidence of it being older than five years. Streetview? You don't even need to have building knowledge, but a surveyor or builder could easily evidence its age and building control officers are plenty qualified!

With respect, your solicitor is being difficult, but as a FTB your knowledge and experience is less than his and you are trying to argue with people who know what they are talking about. If you want advice, take it. This conversation is getting silly.

deFoix

Ok understood. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. Thanks again for your help and opinions. I just didn't want to start arguing back with my solicitor as he's a 25 year veteran of a a well know law firm in the uk. I'll take this up with him.

Thanks Tim

Doozergirl

Sorry, arguing was the wrong word. You've been perfectly polite. It's stressful, I understand, It's a real bugbear of mine. I am sure many sales collapse causing everyone unecessary stress and cost.

There are completley valid reasons for asking for PP and BCA, but no one needs to makenthe conveyanocng process more difficult than it is. It frustrates me that buyers and vendors are put into situations where they have to find the answers.

davidmcn

Doozergirl wrote: »

Your comments about it possibly being done 5 years ago are preposterous. There are title documents - the leases and plans will all be dated!!

Probably not, if (as the OP suggests) this is the first time the flats have been sold separately.

AdrianC

davidmcn wrote: »

Probably not, if (as the OP suggests) this is the first time the flats have been sold separately.

Has nobody been paying rates, then poll tax, then council tax in these flats for the last 38 years?

deFoix

I'm not sure and is somthing I'm going to check with the council tomorrow. When my solicitor asked for the copy of the previous lease dated 1989 (mentioned in land registry title search) the vendor said it could not be found.

I'll update this thread hopefully when I get a resolution.

Regards, Tim

davidmcn

AdrianC wrote: »

Has nobody been paying rates, then poll tax, then council tax in these flats for the last 38 years?

Not denying that, just saying the titles probably won't be much help.

deFoix

Ok, here's an update as promised.

I eventually received a letter from the Council (Planning dept.) stating that:

"I have checked through the available Council records for the above mentioned property and can confirm that whilst there does not appear to be a record of planning permission for the conversion to flats it is considered that the conversion was completed in excess of four years ago and therefore the works would now be immune from any legal action with regard to the Planning Legislation.

In addition I can confirm that the Council does not have any current or outstanding planning enforcement issues in relation to this issue and there is no planning enforcement action currently pending.

All advice in this letter is at officer level and does not prejudice any future decision this authority may make."

I received confirmation from the Council (Building Control) that a Building Notice was submitted in 1978 for "conversion into 4 flats" however they hold no plans or completion cert. Building Control also stated by email that they were not interested in taking enforcement action.

Some people were suggesting that my solicitor was being over the top but I think it was prudent on my part to get this confirmation from the Council. I will keep the correspondence and may help me if I decide to sell in the future.

Having said that I'm not sure that I agree with Plannings statement re: the 4 year rule. As I understand it a change to a single dwelling into flats carries no time limit with regards to enforcement action but I'm not going to argue with the Council.

Even now I still haven't completed and the other buyer's (by to let) investors are desperate the complete before the end of the tax year. Hopefully things are moving along now.

Cheers, Tim