P60s will incorrectly stop Child Tax Credits - Can I prevent this?

Stroller133

Darksparkle wrote: »

If the system shows 2015/16 as £36,500 and 2016/17 as £29,000 (estimated) then the claim will initially be based on £31,500 (£29,000 + £2,500).

They cannot override this and pay based on £29,500 because of the disregards. These are automatically applied by the system.

It can only be based on £29,500 once the renewal is processed.

Whether they assume there is an overpayment for 2015/16 depends on what the 2015/16 estimate is they currently hold.

They hold £29500 for 15/16, which will be correct. But interim award will assume £36.5k as they will use P60 value until renewal is processed.

Once 15/16 is correctly finalised at £29.5, then 16/17 will be based 29.5k as £29k is with 2.5k of this.

Darksparkle

Stroller133 wrote: »

They hold £29500 for 15/16, which will be correct. But interim award will assume £36.5k as they will use P60 value until renewal is processed.

Once 15/16 is correctly finalised at £29.5, then 16/17 will be based 29.5k as £29k is with 2.5k of this.

So as it stands just now your 2015/16 claim is being based on £32,000 (£29,500 estimate plus £2,500)

When RTI updates the 2015/16 income to £36,500 the 2015/16 will recalculate on £34,000 (the 2014/15 income as the income hasn't increased by more than £5000).

This will cause a 2015/16 overpayment of £820.

I understand that the £29,500 will be used when the renewal is finalised. I said that in my post. At that point the 2015/16 claim will revert to being based on £32,000 and the £820 overpayment cancelled.

However you said 2016/17 will initially be based on £32,000. It won't, it will initially be based on £31,500.

Stroller133

Sorry I made the £500 for 16/17 mistake I see that.

Once finalised at 29500, our 16/17 award will be about £80 a week. Will initially be reduced by about £16 a week as it will initially be based on 31500 and by a further £16 due to the "overpayment" repayments. It will all be amended once renewal is complete.

If this is correct, it's not as bad as I initially feared as I thought payments would stop.

All I really wanted to know was if called them now, as I need to give them 16/17 estimates, could I ask them to ignore P60 data as I know its wrong. As we are likely to get about £45 of our award in the interim the I think we can manage until renewal.

Darksparkle

Stroller133 wrote: »

Sorry I made the £500 for 16/17 mistake I see that.

Once finalised at 29500, our 16/17 award will be about £80 a week. Will initially be reduced by about £16 a week as it will initially be based on 31500 and by a further £16 due to the "overpayment" repayments. It will all be amended once renewal is complete.

If this is correct, it as bad as I initially feared as I thought payments would stop.

All I really wanted to know was if called them now, as I need to give them 16/17 estimates, could I ask them to ignore P60 data as I know its wrong. As we are likely to get about £45 of our award in the interim the I think we can manage until renewal.

No you can't ask them to ignore the RTI figures. As mentioned earlier, this is automatically done be the system. They cannot be overwritten until the renewal issued between April and June.

You cannot update the 2016/17 estimate until the year actually starts so no benefit in calling them now.

Stroller133

Thanks for confirming I was right all along. Not likely to get the correct amount until July/August at least 4 months into the financial year.

Does the £2500 increase disregard start in 16/17?

My remaining question is the last award estimated 16/17 ppayments on my estimate for 15/16. When the system updates using RTI figures will it still use the £29500 estimate (is it adjusted upwards slightlya for inflation) or will they now assume our 16/17 income will also be around £36.5. If they use that for 16/17 interim my payments will probably stop as the awards will be much lower and with the repayments will be about nothing. That will cause us problem's.

SkyeKnight

It's almost impossible to get Gift Aid payments (and anything else) off any more I've noticed. I usually get the letter about last year's salary in May, send it back immediately with the correct amount, they tell me it's wrong in about June with them using the P60 amount and I get everything sorted for July when the award is finalised.

This year, got letter about last years salary in early July! Returned it immediately and got a letter saying it's wrong and giving my P60 salary supposedly posted on the 18th of November but arriving on the 20th Dec. I wrote straight back with evidence of the tax-free payments, however they finalised my award on the 19th of November. They wrote in February to say they would not adjust my tax-credits and now I'm not allowed to make an appeal because it's more than 30 days later...

This is the third time they have conned me this year - once taking 5 weeks to send me a renewal form so I missed out on a couple of weeks of back-dating and another because a letter took 27 days to arrive, again not leaving me time to appeal their decision. Anyone think this amazingly slow postal system they seem to be using is accidental?

zagfles

SkyeKnight wrote: »

It's almost impossible to get Gift Aid payments (and anything else) off any more I've noticed. I usually get the letter about last year's salary in May, send it back immediately with the correct amount, they tell me it's wrong in about June with them using the P60 amount and I get everything sorted for July when the award is finalised.

This year, got letter about last years salary in early July! Returned it immediately and got a letter saying it's wrong and giving my P60 salary supposedly posted on the 18th of November but arriving on the 20th Dec. I wrote straight back with evidence of the tax-free payments, however they finalised my award on the 19th of November. They wrote in February to say they would not adjust my tax-credits and now I'm not allowed to make an appeal because it's more than 30 days later...

This is the third time they have conned me this year - once taking 5 weeks to send me a renewal form so I missed out on a couple of weeks of back-dating and another because a letter took 27 days to arrive, again not leaving me time to appeal their decision. Anyone think this amazingly slow postal system they seem to be using is accidental?

Did you send a mandatory reconsideration in December? Did you get the finalised award notification around 20th Dec as well as the letter saying you're lying about your income?

Might be worth taking up with your MP. First of all they accuse you of lying by not believing what you put on the renewal and not giving you a chance to explain before finalising, then they say you can't appeal because they can't get letters to you in a timely fashion.

See the HMRC charter here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/your-charter

Right at the start it says:

Respect you and treat you as honest We’ll treat you even-handedly, with courtesy and respect. We’ll listen to your concerns and answer your questions clearly. We’ll presume that you’re telling us the truth, unless we have good reason to think otherwise.

Yet they make the assumption you're lying because the P60 figures don't match what you declared, despite there being several valid reasons why this might be the case. They don't bother asking you to justify your figures, they just assume you're lying and finalise ignoring your figures. Even if you've made valid deductions in the past and they've been accepted.

They are clearly breaching their own charter. Definitely one to take up with your MP.

Darksparkle

Stroller133 wrote: »

Thanks for confirming I was right all along. Not likely to get the correct amount until July/August at least 4 months into the financial year.

Does the £2500 increase disregard start in 16/17?

My remaining question is the last award estimated 16/17 ppayments on my estimate for 15/16. When the system updates using RTI figures will it still use the £29500 estimate (is it adjusted upwards slightlya for inflation) or will they now assume our 16/17 income will also be around £36.5. If they use that for 16/17 interim my payments will probably stop as the awards will be much lower and with the repayments will be about nothing. That will cause us problem's.

The disregard for increases changes from £5000 to £2500 in 2016/17.

They will use £36,500 for 2016/17 unless you tell them the new estimate of £29,000. As I said, you can do this when the tax year starts. If you call them with the £29,000 they will calculate 2016/17 claim on £31,500 as I explained earlier.

SkyeKnight

zagfles wrote: »

Did you send a mandatory reconsideration in December? Did you get the finalised award notification around 20th Dec as well as the letter saying you're lying about your income?

Thanks for your advice, zagfles, I really appreciated it.

Well, stupidly I replied to the letter from the 18th asking for the details of my deductions assuming that would mean they would change the award. After all there's not much point in them asking for details if they are going to ignore them, is there? I thought the letter from the 18th was after the final award as it arrived a few days after the final award.

I've done a mandatory reconsideration in February when they sent me a letter saying they wouldn't be changing the award for 2014-5. It's obviously well over the 30 days though and is a long time after the final award letter arrived, so I'm not holding my breath.

I know now I should never have sent back the details they asked for but should have gone immediately for a reconsideration. At the end of the day though, they asked for those details knowing perfectly well I couldn't change anything and I find that really unpleasant and deceptive (though that's just my paranoia talking - it's almost certainly just ineptitude).

I'm looking forward to next year when our income will be more than the amount on the P60. I bet they make it easier for me to change the amount then...

zagfles

SkyeKnight wrote: »

Thanks for your advice, zagfles, I really appreciated it.

Well, stupidly I replied to the letter from the 18th asking for the details of my deductions assuming that would mean they would change the award. After all there's not much point in them asking for details if they are going to ignore them, is there? I thought the letter from the 18th was after the final award as it arrived a few days after the final award.

I've done a mandatory reconsideration in February when they sent me a letter saying they wouldn't be changing the award for 2014-5. It's obviously well over the 30 days though and is a long time after the final award letter arrived, so I'm not holding my breath.

I know now I should never have sent back the details they asked for but should have gone immediately for a reconsideration. At the end of the day though, they asked for those details knowing perfectly well I couldn't change anything and I find that really unpleasant and deceptive (though that's just my paranoia talking - it's almost certainly just ineptitude).

I'm looking forward to next year when our income will be more than the amount on the P60. I bet they make it easier for me to change the amount then...

In the Feb letter what reason did they give for not allowing the deductions? They should really have taken the letter/evidence you sent in Dec as a mandatory reconsideration request even if you didn't call it that. Was it because that letter you sent was slightly over 30 days since the decision?

They can accept a mandatory reconsideration over 30 days after the decision if there's a good reason - bearing in mind the Christmas post etc they'd be very petty to not allow it because it was few days late particularly considering the amount of time they took to finalise your award. And more particularly as you'd already given them the correct figures, and they altered them and finalised without first giving you a chance to explain, which goes against their own charter.

In which case if the Feb letter is effectively a response to the MR you may still be able to appeal it. IQ is the expert on this sort of thing, maybe worth PM'ing her if she doesn't see this thread?