Advice regarding Door Stop composite doors

TheCyclingProgrammer

I was wondering if I could get some advice regarding a bit of an ongoing saga with our front and back doors.

Warning: this is a somewhat long rant post so here's a quick TLDR: had composite front door fitted, various snagging issues followed by leaking glazing, badly fixed, glazing replaced more issues, slab replaced more issues, slab replaced again with yet more issues including a cracked weld on frame, also had back door fitted at same time as latest front door slab and its warping under the sun after only two days, not sure what to do next.

Last May (I can't believe how long this has been going on) we had a new composite front door fitted by a company called [redacted] who supply numerous makes of composite door including Door Stop doors.

Initially everything seemed OK - although initially they forgot to silicone around the outside of the frame and there was some snagging (repointing needed doing under door sill) but all got fixed. There was also a small chip in the skin but they were able to repair this with a touch-up pen and it wasn't noticeable. Unfortunately these small issues were just the beginning of our problems so please bear with me!

* Firstly I noticed a smear inside the glass of the side panel. A new side panel had to be ordered and it was replaced relatively promptly.

* Then, in July, the glazing units started leaking and water started pouring down the door. Fitters returned and attempted to fix this by sealing around the outside beading (where it meets the door skin) with black silicon. Didn't look great and it didn't fix the problem - it still leaked. They returned and sealed the beading to the glass using clear silicone. Seemed to fix the problem but looked horrible and the first time I cleaned the glass the silicone just started coming away.

* Issue was referred back to Door Stop who sent out their own engineers. They said it should have never been siliconed - what should have happened was that the glazing cassettes (they are replaceable) should have been removed and resealed or, as it turned out, the wedges just needed tightening up. Due to the beading being siliconed, the engineer had to break them to get them off and was unable to remove the excess silicone from the door skin without damaging it. He fitted new glazing units anyway but the replacement beading was covered in scratches, which he showed me and said he wasn't happy with and would report back to Door Stop.

* Door Stop agreed to replace the entire door slab. We're up to November by this point and the new slab didn't arrive until January (at least we no longer had a leak). Our fitters arrived and replaced the slab. The new slab also had scratches on the beading. A few days after it was fitted, I also noticed a large oily looking mark on the skin which showed up under sunlight - not sure to this day what it was. Once again, Door Stop agreed to replace the slab. Feeling a bit sorry for the fitters as it seems they aren't compensated by Door Stop for having to come and fit these new doors (even though *most* of the issues have been down to Door Stop IMO) we agreed to order a new back door from them too as our current wooden back door was rotting and wouldn't open and close properly. We ordered a black door to match our front door.

* The THIRD slab was fitted this Wednesday. I'd already been to the fitter's showroom to inspect the door personally. It was mostly acceptable but there were a lot of silicone marks on the door and glass which are a !!!!!! to clean off. Once the door was fitted I inspected it again and noticed a scratch on one of the glazing units. So that needs to be replaced. I then noticed that the door seemed to be letting cold air in near the bottom corner. On closer inspection I discovered the corner weld of the door frame had snapped right through, outside to inside and the gasket seal was torn too.

Now, I'm suspicious...I'd always noticed that there had been some black/brown silicone (the same that was used on the front door between frame and trim) on this particular corner but never noticed a particular gap (there was nothing on the opposite corner). Looking closer, I can see that there has been an attempt to put white silicone on the inside of the door sill in this corner too. I strongly suspect the frame weld was always cracked, or partially so and the fitters tried to rectify this or cover it up with silicone (it could have only been done by them during the original installation), and eventually, either as a result of somebody stepping on the bottom of the frame or maybe when the last slab was fitted, its finally given way completely and the gasket has torn. Replacing the gasket is trivial but if the weld has cracked and can't be repaired it looks like the whole frame needs to be replaced.

Despite this saga we at least thought the back door was without issue. Or so we thought. Literally one day after it being fitted, after using the door in the afternoon we discovered we couldn't lock it again without pushing the door in. It seems that when the sun starts shining on the door, particularly the top right corner (from the outside), the door begins bowing inwards, quite significantly.

When closed but off the hooks the door is completely flush with the gasket from top to bottom on the hinge side and the bottom of the lock side but from the middle to the top of the lock side it bows inwards by up to 5-6mm. This causes it to not align properly and the hooks catch on the frame unless you push it in. By the evening when it had cooled down the slab mostly returned to normal (gap was only 1-2mm) and it locked OK.

Now the Door Stop manual says something about leaving it on the hooks during the day to prevent "thermal distortion" which we have done yet when I tried the door again today, once unlocking it the door immediately returned to a 5-6mm gap and couldn't be locked easily again.

I thought the point of a composite door was that it didn't warp or bow and I feel completely mislead. At no point was I told this could happen and I want the slab replaced or if this is "normal" I want my money back. If a black door is an issue (back of house is almost south facing) then I feel we should have been warned about this before we ordered as we could have chosen a colour less prone to this.

If you were in my position, what would you be doing at this stage? I'm completely fed up with the whole thing, its been upsetting me a lot and the stress is not good for me - we have a baby due in 2 weeks and this is the last thing I want to be worrying about. What rights do I have? Am I within my rights to demand they take everything back and give us our money back? Even if I am, then we somehow need to arrange to get new doors fitted before they can be removed.

The fitters have been mostly good about everything but it seems like every time I do complain about something I'm constantly reminded about how its going to "cost them money" to fix it because "they get nothing from Door Stop". I was sympathetic to begin with but at the end of the day they aren't the ones who've spent over £2k on two doors that have had issues from the beginning and my patience is wearing thin. I don't care what its going to cost them as its not my problem. Am I being unreasonable?

Sorry for long rambling post, this was as much about getting things off my chest as asking for advice.

Furts

I will offer a few points for you to digest:

1) It is ridiculous to say the fitters get nothing from Door Stop. It is also a certainty they are not telling the truth and do not feel sorry for them. Split this into two issues. First, they should be quality control and checking before the door is installed. If the door was first delivered to their base then their actions are inexcusable. Basically they are being lazy and un-cooperative. Second they will be buying in countless doors on credit terms and they will have witheld payment to Door Stop to cover their remedial work. It is then probable Door Stop will issue them the doors FOC over the matter. This keeps the fitters sweet and ensures future custom from them.

2) Door Stop doors are not the best, but they are dirt cheap. Hence I have one on my home. It is a source of irritation to me and I do not rate the quality. However, my front door cost under £500 after adding laminated glass and various extras. Hence your paying £2000 for the doors is absurd. Moving on from this, the fitters have taken you for so much money over the order they have an enormous sum to play with over rectifying issues. And even more so if they end up with the doors FOC!

3) I suspect many of the issues such as cracked welds and poor fitting are down to the installers. Indeed, I wonder if the door has been correctly measured for your opening. I would not be surprised if the measurements were wrong, and the frame and door are being forced and abused into place. Hence the problems you are experiencing.

So...poor quality doors but I suspect your fitters are even worse in all shapes and forms!

Hope this helps.

TheCyclingProgrammer

Just to clarify on price...back door cost £600 which from what I can tell is a reasonable price, we got a free thermal upgrade due to issues with front door.

Front door cost approx. £1500 but this included a side panel and also a Yale keyless lock which added £300 to the price, plus thermal and secure by design upgrades. So I don't think the prices are unusual and are on par with the numerous online quotes I got.

In my view, the fitters are almost certainly responsible for the cracked weld or for trying to cover it up instead of telling me and delaying fitting. I don't think the frame is too big for the opening but the frame could have been broken before it was fitted.

I also agree that they should be doing additional quality checks BEFORE attempting to fit the doors.

I do not believe they are responsible for the leaking glazing but they are responsible for making a complete !!!!-up over fixing it (trying to use silicone when that was totally inappropriate).

I also do not believe they are responsible for the numerous marks and silicone smears that have appeared over subsequent replacement panels and I think Door Stop have QA issues of their own. I'm baffled why these doors do not ship with additional protection to the glazing.

As for the bowing issue on the back door I have no idea where the fault lies here. As far as I can tell the door has been fitted correctly. The frame seems plumb, level and square and mechanically fixed appropriately. What I don't understand is how the slab is managing to bow in the corner even with the hooks engaged - I unlocked the door today around 2pm at the height of the sun and the corner immediately sprung back by about 5-6mm as it did yesterday. I pushed it in and re-locked it and by 4pm when the sun had started to go down it had returned to normal (mostly, maybe a 1mm gap at most).

The Door Stop installation manual seems to indicate a degree of tolerance for "thermal movement" of up to 5mm that should return to normal as it cools down, but IMO any degree of thermal movement that makes it impossible for the hooks to engage without pushing or pulling the door is unacceptable. I know the keeps could be adjusted but if they have to be adjusted that much then surely there would be insufficient pressure to push the door against the gasket and make an air tight seal?

TheCyclingProgrammer

The latest from the fitter is that they are going to do all they can to resolve the issues but they have to wait for a response from Door Stop before proceeding. He also said that Door Stop will not do anything about the frame for free as its been like it too long and no way to prove how it happened. It seems like they are willing to replace the frame at their own cost if it cannot be repaired.

They also sent me an update regarding the bowed door. The official word from Door Stop is that thermal movement is normal and up to 5mm acceptable top and bottom. They also sent me some information from another bowed slab report that they had done and they have stated that movement after installation is quite normal due to the door coming from being stored in a factory environment to a domestic environment where it is exposed to central heating and sunlight and that it should have a minimum of 2 weeks with the hooks engaged to let it settle.

Never heard of this before but that's what they are saying.

Furts

Your fitters are responsible for the leaking glazing. You say that the wedges needed to be tightened. Why did they not check these and then tighten them when they fitted the door?

I do not know what protection was on your door when you received it. Was it fully protected and encased as a factory delivery or had the fitters removed the protection?

Bear in mind if the fitters had removed the protection and the door had been rattling around in their van then the wedges could have been loosened.

I also wonder if the silicone smears were from the fitters hands, rags and just general sloppiness.

TheCyclingProgrammer

Furts wrote: »

Your fitters are responsible for the leaking glazing. You say that the wedges needed to be tightened. Why did they not check these and then tighten them when they fitted the door?

No idea. As far as I was aware the doors are fully glazed and sealed when they leave the factory. But they certainly should have checked it when we reported the leak and Door Stop's own engineers expressed as much to me when they came out to fix it.

The ironic thing is if the leak had been fixed properly in the first place, all of the door issues would have been over (until this frame weld came apart anyway). The first slab was otherwise fine. It was only once it was incorrectly siliconed to try and fix the leak that the saga really began.

I do not know what protection was on your door when you received it. Was it fully protected and encased as a factory delivery or had the fitters removed the protection?

I saw the most recent slab when I inspected it at their premises - they hadn't even opened it and it was still sealed in its packaging. It was wrapped in cardboard packaging but the glass had no protection at all (I thought glazing was usually transported with a protective film). It was opened in front of me and already had little smears of silicone all over it, but they did come off when rubbed.

I can't remember to what extent the original front door was protected when it was fitted.

I also wonder if the silicone smears were from the fitters hands, rags and just general sloppiness.

As above, the silicone smears were definitely there when it came out of the packaging. The general sloppiness in this case is whoever seals the glazing in Door Stop's factory.

Anyway, another small update - I actually had a call from Door Stop themselves. They were very sympathetic and did seem to back up your claim that they look after their fitters (but I'm not going to get into that argument). They confirmed the back door should need a few weeks to acclimatise - if it doesn't we can take it from there. The scratched glass will be replaced (fine but probably the least of my concerns). They are awaiting photos of the cracked frame to determine if it is a failed weld (which will be treated as a manufacturing defect) or if it has been dropped/damaged some other way (not down to them).

Here's a photo of the cracked corner:

phil24_7

that looks like a badly repaired frame or a factory second, not a cracked, new frame!

robatwork

I was considering a doorstop composite.

Those pictures have made me reconsider so thanks. That is one shoddy job done by installers who are either unprofessional or take no pride in their work.