Loft Conversion in Victorian Conversion in Scotland - ownership of roof space?

crazycatlady1984

deleted, thread moved elsewhere

sgun

Your problem is not so much who owns the roof space, more about how the actual roof is maintained. Even if you have sole rights to the roof and roof space (it would say so in the deeds) every flat has a liability to maintain the roof as the 2004 Tenements Act sets out. With this liability comes some rights e.g. the right to refuse windows in the roof, as these then fall under the joint maintenance liabilities. So if the owners of lower flats don't want to have to pay for the upkeep of your attic conversion windows they can just block you from having them installed.


However, it really hinges on what your titles say. If they say you and only you own the roof and roof space then you can do what you like with it, if they don't specify ownership then all the flats in the building have a say and can block you putting windows in. They can't block you putting in a proper room but you probably don't want one without windows.


On the plus side, if the titles are silent on ownership then all the flats have to contribute to maintenance of the roof and you can split costs of repairs.


I am not a Scottish law expert but we do own a top floor flat which we have had re-roofed with equal contributions from the other 15 flats so I did do quite a bit of research. I find Scottish titles very confusing and this is only my interpretation of the law.

LUHG1878

I would continue to try and get clarification from a solicitor, someone must have come up against this issue at some point.

Meantime, could you speak with your neighbours, find out what their concerns are, they may genuinely be worried about something. Take the opportunity to tell them in detail what you're hoping to do, and explain that you do not intend to alter the roofline, just install velux windows, maybe put their minds at rest?

Would you be prepared to buy them out of their rights/responsibilities to the roof?

crazycatlady1984

LUHG1878 wrote: »

I would continue to try and get clarification from a solicitor, someone must have come up against this issue at some point.

Meantime, could you speak with your neighbours, find out what their concerns are, they may genuinely be worried about something. Take the opportunity to tell them in detail what you're hoping to do, and explain that you do not intend to alter the roofline, just install velux windows, maybe put their minds at rest?

Would you be prepared to buy them out of their rights/responsibilities to the roof?

Thanks, yes, trying to get clarification from solicitor at the moment.

Since we moved in, about 6 years ago, the skylight in loft has leaked. We were new to the area so the couple downstairs arranged for a roofer to come and fix it. They have used him for 100 years and seem to like him coming twice a year to patch it up rather than just get it properly fixed. We have tried to suggest getting it properly fixed but they are set in their ways and always insist on this guy doing his patch up job (because it's cheap and I don't think they have a lot of money). These repairs are always split 50/50.

In the course of doing our conversion and installing veluxes we would have fixed this and then any leaks etc caused by our work we would obviously pay for. To answer your question though, yes, I think we probably would buy out their rights / responsibilities to the roof (dependant on cost) and be fully liable for roof maintenance going forwards (if they would let us, but they probably won't.)

The issue is mainly that they are so unreasonable. The seem to thrive on hassles and from the minute we moved in they would tell us gleefully all the things they did to make the lives of the previous owners of our house hell (it didn't take us long to figure out that they were the reason the family we bought from sold up and moved). We have bent over backwards for this couple since we moved in but they doggedly try to find fault / issues. I suspect it is attention seeking more than anything, but they have created such a horrible atmosphere now that I just don't know how to approach them regarding this. I guess I will see what solicitor says and take it from there.

LUHG1878

If they don't have a lot of money, as you think, then they may well be open to an offer, your solicitor might be able to guide you on how best to approach this, if you feel unable to approach them directly.

It does however beg the question, if the atmosphere is so unpleasant, and it was bad enough for the previous family to move, do you still see yourself living in the house long enough to make doing the conversion work worthwhile?

phil24_7

If it's attention seeking then perhaps inviting them up for a cup of tea occasionally might make them more amiable? They may be happier with friends upstairs than neighbours.

Regards
Phil

crazycatlady1984

Hi Phil - totally agree, and we have tried.


We always chat with them when we see them (which is much less often during the winter months), we always offer any help if the subject of something like that comes up. If see one of them nearby when we are in the car will always stop to offer a lift home; husband has done quite a few (quite time consuming) manual jobs he has seen them doing in the garden etc etc.


They will both generally chat away quite happily, but then the nasty notes will start (getting us into look at dirty patches on cornicing which they claim has "just appeared" and is a "damp patch" caused by us etc etc). They seem to expect us to jump at the least little thing and, don't get me wrong, if there is an actual issue, we will be all over it. I wouldn't want to be a "bad neighbour" to anybody, least of all an elderly couple. Unfortunately, like the boy who cried wolf, they wound us up repeatedly with nonsense and then when their actually was an issue, we were sick of their behaviour and whilst we did address the issue, we did not pander to them the way we previously have. This has obviously irritated them beyond belief and we have not spoken since and their have been a few subtle hints that they are hostile towards us. (Obviously, yes, I am somewhat regretting not jumping through hoops for them now as I would possibly be in a better position regarding our loft ideas, however, it was getting to the point where their attitude was verging on bullying / harassment and we had both had enough).




A phrase which the wife has used to describe her actions when the last family lived there is "!!!!!!ation factor", ie she would do things or not do things with the sole intention of annoying / inconveniencing them. She says this with a chuckle, like she is proud of it. This is the issue I struggle with - I don't know how to reason with ppl like that or if I even can. It seems that they will cut their nose off to spite their face (ie by us converting the loft we would free them of roof maintenance costs) but if their driving force is "!!!!!!ation factor", where can I go from there??


Maybe I will be surprised and they might be reasonable and open to discussion, but I am not hopeful

crazycatlady1984

LUHG1878 wrote: »

If they don't have a lot of money, as you think, then they may well be open to an offer, your solicitor might be able to guide you on how best to approach this, if you feel unable to approach them directly.

It does however beg the question, if the atmosphere is so unpleasant, and it was bad enough for the previous family to move, do you still see yourself living in the house long enough to make doing the conversion work worthwhile?

Thanks LUHG.


Yes, I would hope so, however, (as explained in other post I have just written) they have a v odd attitude and may not be interested in this as they seem to thrive on annoying people. I am hoping they may be amenable to this though.


I had thought this would be our forever home. We don't really hear them (good soundproofing I guess), garden is pretty private, and as I say, they have had various gripes since we have moved in but in between them, they are generally fine. I just worry that the latest issue may have turned them v sour towards us.

phil24_7

Perhaps they will be off into a home in the not to distant future and you can ask your new neighbours for their permission!

crazycatlady1984

Haha, sounds awful Phil, but it kinda would solve my problems if they did Would feel sorry for the other residents in the home though cos no doubt they would stir up trouble in there lol