Garage done work that was not required - Do i have any comeback ?

Austinhead

Hi,

I am hoping that someone can offer some advice here.

Late last year my car developed an intermittent starting problem, where the car would not even attempt to start. I suspected this wasn't a battery fault as all the electrics in the car were working fine. The car could be jump started.
Since it was intermittent if I drove the car to a garage I have used several times before, but they were unable to reproduce the fault and so no work was done.

In mid Jan the problem reoccurred on a Sat afternoon, unfortunately my partner was away and we have 3 kids (plus I work FT) so I booked it into the same garage, thinking I would need to jump start the car using the hill near our house, and booked a hire car.

On the Monday morning I attempted to start the car, it started first time. I took the car to the garage, confirmed that it wouldn't start before i gave them the keys and reiterated the symptoms to them.
They phoned later to say that the starter motor was at fault, and the cost of replacement was £336.
The work was done.

On Sat i drove into town, went to the shops, came back to the car only to find it wouldn't start. Exactly the same symptoms as previously. All the electrics work, but the car made no attempt to start.

I called the RAC (didn't have home start cover), they came out and after a few minutes diagnosed the problem as corrosion on the spade connector to the starter motor, along with a loose fit.

The guy from the RAC was fairly confident that this was probably the issue all along - although this obviously can't be proven. The notes I have from them detail the problem.

Do I have any come back to the garage on this ?. Whilst I understand that people do make mistakes, this is beyond me, how they can check it before replacing the starter motor and not notice then, and then go 1 further and actually disconnect and replace the starter motor without either cleaning the connector, or ensuring a tight fit, is just incompetence.

This mistake might have cost me the best part of £450.

I did call the garage when the car wouldn't start on Sat, and they said if I could get it to them, they would have a look. Since the RAC fixed it, and didn't feel it needed any further work, I haven't been in touch with the garage again.

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on this, £450 is a lot of dosh, not to mention the inconvenience of it all.

Thanks in advance.

bigjl

The corrosion could have developed since the starter motor was fitted is one possibility.

The actual starter motor you had on the car would have been exchanged with the replacement and will likely have now been reconditioned and sold on again.

Did you ever consider hat the original fault was the starter solenoid?

And was actually part of the problem that the gage fixed when replacing the starter motor?

What are you actually wanting to happen?

Do you want the garage to give you back your old starter motor?

Or just refund the money for the work done last year?

Silver-Surfer_2

Austinhead wrote: »

Hi,

I am hoping that someone can offer some advice here.

Late last year my car developed an intermittent starting problem, where the car would not even attempt to start. I suspected this wasn't a battery fault as all the electrics in the car were working fine. The car could be jump started.
Since it was intermittent if I drove the car to a garage I have used several times before, but they were unable to reproduce the fault and so no work was done.

In mid Jan the problem reoccurred on a Sat afternoon, unfortunately my partner was away and we have 3 kids (plus I work FT) so I booked it into the same garage, thinking I would need to jump start the car using the hill near our house, and booked a hire car.

On the Monday morning I attempted to start the car, it started first time. I took the car to the garage, confirmed that it wouldn't start before i gave them the keys and reiterated the symptoms to them.
They phoned later to say that the starter motor was at fault, and the cost of replacement was £336.
The work was done.

On Sat i drove into town, went to the shops, came back to the car only to find it wouldn't start. Exactly the same symptoms as previously. All the electrics work, but the car made no attempt to start.

I called the RAC (didn't have home start cover), they came out and after a few minutes diagnosed the problem as corrosion on the spade connector to the starter motor, along with a loose fit.

The guy from the RAC was fairly confident that this was probably the issue all along - although this obviously can't be proven. The notes I have from them detail the problem.

Do I have any come back to the garage on this ?. Whilst I understand that people do make mistakes, this is beyond me, how they can check it before replacing the starter motor and not notice then, and then go 1 further and actually disconnect and replace the starter motor without either cleaning the connector, or ensuring a tight fit, is just incompetence.

This mistake might have cost me the best part of £450.

I did call the garage when the car wouldn't start on Sat, and they said if I could get it to them, they would have a look. Since the RAC fixed it, and didn't feel it needed any further work, I haven't been in touch with the garage again.

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on this, £450 is a lot of dosh, not to mention the inconvenience of it all.

Thanks in advance.

That sums it up and there's no point pushing it if they don't offer anything by way of goodwill.

securityguy

I had a similar problem. My car intermittently became impossible to start, particularly from warm: the starter motor wouldn't turn over, although the solenoid clunked . After a while, it would start once it had cooled down. Or not. Finally it stranded me and I had to have it recovered, and (admittedly under a second-hand warranty that I'd got when I bought the car, which I'd had from new, from the lease company) I had a new starter solenoid, and then starter fitted. The problem wasn't fixed after either piece of work.

In the end, it turned out that the earth from the battery negative side to the engine had corroded at the engine end: it was spotted when trying to start the car, up on a ramp, when the light was poor and you could see the arcing. Take the bolt out, clean it and grease it, put it back in, sorted. Had it been my money, I'd have been moderately cross, but "starter won't turn" is 90% likely to be the solenoid or the starter itself, so it was a perfectly reasonable assumption.

Richard53

I think the original garage were totally incompetent. I'm only an amateur mechanic (very) but I wouldn't condemn an electrical component without checking that it had a good 12V supply and earth, and testing it on the bench if necessary. A quick check that all the connections and earth were sound would take about a minute, and might have spotted the problem straight away.


As you know, you can't prove it was just a dodgy connection at the time the garage looked at it, so I think you will have to swallow this one. But that doesn't stop you speaking to the garage (nicely, remembering that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar) and asking if they can offer you something by way of goodwill. Can't hurt to ask, and if they aren't sympathetic, just don't go there again.

s_b

before you all hang the garage high consider this
i have a multijet diesel and i had exactly the same problem
eventually i took off the starter motor myself and took it to the re conditioners as it ran fine for me on the bench
they advised that this starter and many others now have the commutator on the end of the shaft at 90% and once the brushes get low then you get intermittent starting like here
i had already checked things like earths battery and spade connectors or in my case bolted connectors
the car starts on the button now
so in this case the spade could have been a red herring

bigjl

One point that just occurred to me.

The OP stated that he felt it wasn't the battery as all the electrics worked, but it could be jump started.

All the electrics will work when a battery is too flat to start the car, turning the headlights on a trying to start it will show the lack of power.

But if this terminal on the starter was at fault why would a jump start make a difference? Or did the OP mean a bump or push start?

As the OP had already made the decision that it was not battery related did he actually just ask the garage to replace the starter motor.

It is not unreasonable to assume the symptoms are a dodgy starter solenoid.

If it was corrosion on a connection then would it really have been fine for several months? Going by the OPs timeline that is. A dodgy solenoid could certainly act like that as often people with more experience would simply continue on by hitting the starter motor to release the sticking solenoid when needed.

Nobody other than the garage knows what was said when the car was dropped off, but in my experience people who specifically request a part be replaced tend to come back when their diagnosis was incorrect and try and pass the buck.

Not saying that is what the OP did, but seems possible.

droopsnoot

bigjl wrote: »

Or did the OP mean a bump or push start?

OP means bump start:

Austinhead wrote: »

so I booked it into the same garage, thinking I would need to jump start the car using the hill near our house, and booked a hire car.

eagertolearn

Garage mechanics by and large are fitters these days and cannot diagnose faults (unless the computer tells them what is wrong). I had a Vauxhall Vectra many years ago that kept cutting out and it went back to Vauxhall three times, each time costing about £500. The problem wasn't fixed so I traded the car in. When I went back to the garage because of a problem with the new car they guy there said the Vauxhall had cut out so they went to the local dealer and they said it was a known problem with an electrical component and cost £17 to fix. In short you have to suck it up I'm afraid

Austinhead

Sorry, yes I meant bump start it.

The RAC checked the battery when they came at the weekend and it was absolutely fine. The reason why I didn't think it was the battery was because the car made no attempt to start, in the past when I have had battery problems it would at least make an attempt, even if it wasn't much (although I realise that this isn't bullet proof).

No I didn't suggest to the garage it was the starter motor. I said it wouldn't start, and it was intermittent but I could bump start it.

I think it's unlikely that the corrosion could have occurred in 5 weeks.

fred246

The last time I fitted a starter motor I was amazed how easy it was. Only took a few minutes. Starter motors normally cost £50 to £100. Go on eurocarparts and find a price for your car. £336 minus the cost equals their labour charge. This will be excessive. Not sure how you get from £336 to £450. Go back to garage tell them they have incorrectly diagnosed the problem, changed a part that did not need it, and overcharged you for fitting it. Tell them if you don't get satisfaction you will take them to the small claims court. If you don't get satisfaction you have to decide if you want to pay £30 to £50 court fees to take it to the small claims court. The judge will have no idea about cars and will make a random decision. There is a good chance it will be in your favour but it's a bit of a gamble.