The labour party really is finished, isnt it?

Thrugelmir

Spidernick wrote: »

I've seen a few posters mention this here. The problem is the same is very much true of the Tories - you'd struggle to find bigger numpties than IDS and Jeremy Hunt, for example!

As I have said before, the general quality of MPs is much lower than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Perhaps it doesn't appeal as much to talented people these days?

Talented numpties nevertheless.

Politics has become a career. Rather than something you do after having a career. Without life experience what value can you add to debate on many topics.

Spidernick

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Talented numpties nevertheless.

Hmm, we're definitely going to have to 'agree to disagree' on that one!

ruggedtoast

ukcarper wrote: »

Not all the posters who think Labour have no chance of being elected in the short term would never vote Labour.

We'll survive somehow.

Generali

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The Labour Party is finished, mutually agree some people who would never vote for the Labour Party, in response to a completely made up story.

I have voted Labour several times although would describe myself as a Tory.

Labour stand for Trade Unionism these days and Trade Unionism is dying everywhere but in the public sector. That's why Mr Corbyn has this ridiculous idea of building subs to carry nukes while not building nukes to put on board. That way he keeps.thousands of union jobs intact. That each of those jobs will cost tens of millions of pounds is neither here nor there. What matters is that the stream of money from union members to the election funds of Labour MPs continues.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

We'll survive somehow.

Hmmmm. If I was Corbyn/Labour I'd be a lot more vocal about boundary changes, short money, electoral roll changes, union levy opt in's, EVEL, and the Tories stuffing the House of Lords ( while cutting MP numbers ). Taken one at a time, some of the above seem fair and not too bad, others such as the House of Lords bordering on blatant gerrymandering.

Taken altogether. Labour is going to have very big problems indeed fighting future elections on an equal basis with the Tories. All before a single vote has even been cast or any future policies are announced. Labour really need to wake up now to that electoral rug being pulled from under them. But seem to be too busy in-fighting to notice.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Hmmmm. If I was Corbyn/Labour I'd be a lot more vocal about boundary changes, short money, electoral roll changes, union levy opt in's, EVEL, and the Tories stuffing the House of Lords ( while cutting MP numbers ). Taken one at a time, some of the above seem fair and not too bad, others such as the House of Lords bordering on blatant gerrymandering.

Taken altogether. Labour is going to have very big problems indeed fighting future elections on an equal basis with the Tories. All before a single vote has even been cast or any future policies are announced. Labour really need to wake up now to that electoral rug being pulled from under them. But seem to be too busy in-fighting to notice.

The only example of Gerrymandering I can think of is the Lib Dems refusing to pass boundary changes in order to disadvantage the Tories.

ukcarper

ruggedtoast wrote: »

We'll survive somehow.

Do you really think Labour have a chance of being elected in 2020.

Generali

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really think Labour have a chance of being elected in 2020.

The Tories are almost 10% ahead in the polls and should now be well into mid-term territory. Labour are about as popular as they were in 1982 with Foot in charge and the Falklands conflict freshly won.

If Labour win in 2020 I'll walk down The Mall in my Reg Grundies.

ukcarper

Generali wrote: »

The Tories are almost 10% ahead in the polls and should now be well into mid-term territory. Labour are about as popular as they were in 1982 with Foot in charge and the Falklands conflict freshly won.

If Labour win in 2020 I'll walk down The Mall in my Reg Grundies.

I not surprised that's what you think, I was interested in rugged's opinion.

Jason74

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The Labour Party is finished, mutually agree some people who would never vote for the Labour Party, in response to a completely made up story.

For me, this post in many respects sums up why the Labour party is in such profound difficulty. If we look at the bald facts, the party has lost the last two elections, and now faces a situation where winning power will be harder next time as a result of boundary changes etc that will by most accounts be to the benefit of the Tories . It has also lost a significant powerbase in Scotland that could previously be relied upon to deliver a significant bloc of MPs, and the dynamics of that (fear in England of SNP holding the balance of power) appear to make some people in England less likely to vote Labour too.

That's a profound set of difficulties to overcome, and to overcome them, Labour requires strong leadership and a united looking party that deals with issues relevant to voters. Instead, it has a leader with no meaningful experience of leading anything, a parliamentary party that clearly has no confidence in that leader, and internal party debate seems to be concerned with issues that are of little concern to many voters at a time when there is no shortage of opportunities for a decent opposition to challenge the government.

I myself would consider myself a "natural" Labour supporter (a quick glance through my posting history here would hint strongly at that), and have never voted Tory in my life. But like many people, I have moved away from the party in the last couple of general elections, and the current state of the party is such that I am further from being likely to vote Labour than i have ever been. Indeed, if the alternative is the current Labour set up, I'm close to the point of seeing a Cameron led Government a the lesser of two evils (albeit I take a different view of something led by most of the likely successors). When people like me are thinking like that, Labour are in big trouble.

But instead of trying to address those issues, many Labour supporters at present seems more interested in taking a "shoot the messenger" approach to anyone who raises them. That's no way to build a support base large enough to challenge effectively for Government