Emergency tooth ache

justme111

mal4mac wrote: »

Couldn't dentists work in the same way as GPs?

"GPs have always been self-employed practitioners who mix private practice with contracted work from the NHS. When the NHS was set up in 1948, GPs kept their independence but agreed to register all patients and provide 24-hour care. This established universal access to family doctors for the first time in the UK. GPs were paid on the basis of the number of patients on their books and also received payments for specific activities, including out-of-hours visits, maternity care and vaccinations."

This actually sounds like the "capitation" system recommended by the BDF So maybe my objections to this can be overcome!

"Surgeries are handed an average of £136 a year to provide care for every patient on their list."

Couldn't the same be paid to dentists? I'd happily pay around £200 a year more in tax to get away from the current system! (I'm assuming I'll be subsidising the poverty stricken, and those with even more teeth problems than me... which I don't mind doing...)

what do you know about gp's and medicine? Do you think it is in much better shape than dentistry? Do you know that what government pays buys the whole 7 minutes for appointment? Do you think adequate discussion and diagnosis is possible in that time? Do you know about lots of stuff that could be done for people but as it is not "cost-effective" it is wiped out from mentioning anywhere ? Do you know about countless paracetamols and amoxicillins prescribed by gps because they have no resources to do proper investigations? Do you know about breakdowns and guilt they suffer as they don't think they are able to do good job ?
How do you think your £200 a year will buy unlimited dental service if individual bills can easily run into thousands?

mal4mac

"The NHS has been declared the best healthcare system by an international panel of experts who rated its care superior to countries which spend far more on health."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health

But your points are well taken, just me, I think we should be spending more on health care to make us even better.

On a visit to the dentist, many people just have a quick inspection, and are told, "fine, come back in six months[-two years]." So most of their £200 a year can go towards helping the poor souls who need thousands of pounds worth of treatment - which will not be unlimited, but will be "sensibly" limited.

welshdent

Thing is though mal is a lot of people have already made suggestions not only similar to yourself and also that go further. The practicalities are either unworkable (as touched on by myself before) or not politically desirable - by numerous governments not just the current one. Basically they do not want NHS dentisry but can no come out and say that

mal4mac

Dental Access Centres are not a fair comparison to a standard practice. They may only take on emergency cases needing significant treatment.
http://www.wyevalley.nhs.uk/services/community-services/dental-access-centres.aspx

As a country we could not afford to buy all the dental surgeries and equipment, equip and staff them .

What about the BDA recommendation for capitation? Then dentists keep their practices, but get a fixed yearly payment for each person on their list. How many patients have you on your list? Would £200 a year from each of them keep you in profit?

The biggest problem with capitation, that I can see, is that some dentist may try to get very large lists and then cut corners to service that over-large list.

It is far more expensive to run a dental surgery than a gp practice.

Any figures to back that up?

justme111

mal4mac wrote: »

"The NHS has been declared the best healthcare system by an international panel of experts who rated its care superior to countries which spend far more on health."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health

But your points are well taken, just me, I think we should be spending more on health care to make us even better.

On a visit to the dentist, many people just have a quick inspection, and are told, "fine, come back in six months[-two years]." So most of their £200 a year can go towards helping the poor souls who need thousands of pounds worth of treatment - which will not be unlimited, but will be "sensibly" limited.

For a start if done by the book inspection would not be quick. It could be quicker 20 years ago when dentists had less compliance rigmarole. Now they are supposed to do smoking advice , keep an eye on child and vulnerable adult abuse possibility, re bag instruments after every patient , do copious notes, leterally show people how to brush their teeth , offer every child fluoride application, do it and discuss all possible treatments and God knows what else. That is in case of simple check up only. On top of it just to keep surgery running requires dozens of insurances and supervisors that need to be paid for , not even to mention capital expenditure.

brook2jack

mal4mac wrote: »

Dental Access Centres are not a fair comparison to a standard practice. They may only take on emergency cases needing significant treatment.
http://www.wyevalley.nhs.uk/services/community-services/dental-access-centres.aspx



What about the BDA recommendation for capitation? Then dentists keep their practices, but get a fixed yearly payment for each person on their list.

The biggest problem with capitation, that I can see, is that some dentist may try to get very large lists and then cut corners to service that over-large list.

Any figures to back that up?

Common sense would say a room with a gp and a computer in it is a lot cheaper to run than a room with a dentist, dental nurse , a ton of expensive equipment and materials . The figures bear this out (from 2014 and 2010 but dental expenses have sky rocketed even further since then and earnings have plummeted whilst expenses have increased even further )
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/ddrb-evid.pdf
http://www.pssru.ac.uk/pdf/uc/uc2010/uc2010_s10.pdf
https://www.bda.org/dentists/policy-campaigns/research/workforce-finance/ddrb/Documents/2011-12_bda_expenses_england.pdf

I am of the generation of dentists that have had capitation paid by the NHS . It failed because 50% of the population do not attend the dentist. In the days of capitation people were encouraged to come to the dentist, more people registered and dental costs went up. As a result the government clawed back payments for work done from dentists as it had overspent on dentistry. The budget cannot cope if more than 50% of people attend a dentist.

The average nominal dental list is around 3000 people per dentist .

lknights1987

All you will be given is pain relief advice that 111 service is a load of crap. Your best bet is if you haven't already done so go down to the hospital to the oral department and say you need to see a dentist asap.

What tooth is it? Try putting a bit of onion on it that will help for 30 minutes and take ibuprofen

AG47

I just had the tooth out.

I don't like options where they lock the toxins in. Better have the tooth out

lknights1987

AG47 wrote: »

I just had the tooth out.

I don't like options where they lock the toxins in. Better have the tooth out

What tooth did you have out?

I've had my bottom right wisdom tooth out and the the tooth next to it out today.