Towing

aardvaak

I see a lot people with camper vans with either a front end lift or trailer towing a smart car, but is it possible and legal to tow a trailer with a smart car on it behind a caravan?

MX5huggy

You mean a car (4x4 or whatever) towing a caravan then a small car being towed behind this. I don't know can't believe it would be. Why would you want to you have a car at the front so don't need another one.

Car_54

AFAIK it's illegal unless the towing vehicle meets the definition of a Showmen's vehicle. See http://www.showmensguild.com/transport.htm

Strider590

I've seen a few recently, most recent I saw was a mk6 Fiesta, it had some sort of rig that went through the cars bumper and bolted to (I assume) the chassis from the tow hook on the RV. I think these are known as "A frames".

All four wheels were on the ground and I remarked to my GF "that can't be legal" and "that's a good way to f**k up the cars transmission".

facade

Perfectly legal in the UK with an A frame as above, provided the car is fitted with an overrun braking system, and lights to conform with trailer regulations.

You actually don't need brakes if the trailer MAM is less than 750Kg, but I doubt if there is any car that would comply with that.

There was some talk of Euro regs applying last year that make overrun brakes illegal except on centre axle trailers, but I don't think these have been applied.

Once you leave the UK most Foreign Police regard the car as a broken down vehicle, not a trailer, and won't let you tow it.

Transmission damage?

In The Olden Days, when we had Proper Cars made properly, not a problem.

Nowadays, with everything being de-engineered to just last out the warranty, probably very likely- in neutral with the engine stopped the countershaft is still, so there is nothing to fling oil over the mainshaft as it rotates inside the gears...

iolanthe07

Once you leave the UK most Foreign Police regard the car as a broken down vehicle, not a trailer, and won't let you tow it.

The advice in Motorhome mags is to take a copy of our relevant traffic regulations translated into the language of which ever country you're visiting to show to local police. Under EU law if it's legal here then it is also legal when visiting another EU country. Foreign plod often doesn't seem to understand this underlying principle.

Car_54

The previous three posts have done a splendid job of answering a different question to the one asked!

The OP isn't asking about towing a car behind a motorhome. He wants to "tow a trailer with a smart car on it behind a caravan". In other words, a towing vehicle with TWO trailers in tandem.

facade

Car_54 wrote: »

The previous three posts have done a splendid job of answering a different question to the one asked!

The OP isn't asking about towing a car behind a motorhome. He wants to "tow a trailer with a smart car on it behind a caravan". In other words, a towing vehicle with TWO trailers in tandem.

Ah yes, now you point it out. I was confused by the first half of the sentence being about campervans.

The answer to that is
Practically, no, because the caravan would snap in half, the feeble chassis is not designed to have a drawbar fitted.;)

Legally, yes, if the towing vehicle is a motor tractor, then it can tow two linked trailers, a road locomotive can tow three. (And you don't have to be a showman or farmer to own one)

Silver-Surfer_2

iolanthe07 wrote: »

Once you leave the UK most Foreign Police regard the car as a broken down vehicle, not a trailer, and won't let you tow it.

The advice in Motorhome mags is to take a copy of our relevant traffic regulations translated into the language of which ever country you're visiting to show to local police. Under EU law if it's legal here then it is also legal when visiting another EU country. Foreign plod often doesn't seem to understand this underlying principle.

If that were the case then how can you leave a pub in England under the English drink drive limit and then be over when you cross into Scotland?

Edit: On the continent LGV's can carry a greater weight over the fifth wheel. That offence was one of VOSA's (that's what they were at the time) favourite offence for foreign truck drives. So are you saying they were wrong and the drivers had a statutory defence?

Iceweasel

Possible and legal is one thing - but whether the restrictions make it viable is another.

Towing two trailers is allowed.

You could even tow three.

Two trailers means that you are a 'Motor Tractor' - with three trailers you become a 'Locomotive'. as facade has already posted.

There are a pile of rules that apply though.

In reality double and triple towing is usually done only by showmen and farmers.

If you see a fair on the move it's always with the caravan at the rear - I doubt if any caravan has Construction and Use approval/permits such that a tow-bar could be legally fitted.

Anyhow with two trailers the speed limit would be 20mph.

With three trailers the speed limit is 12mph and you must inform the police at least 24 hours in advance as an escort is required.

Showmen, unless they are seriously taking the pi$$ which they very rarely do, are usually left to get on with it as the paperwork for the police would be a nightmare that no officer would want to enter into.

On the other hand a regular Joe who might hitch a small bike trailer behind a caravan and set off on holiday would be like a magnet for the Traffic Squad to get featured on the TV Traffic Cops' programme or the like.

Interesting thread - but the bottom line is - Don't do it.

powerful_Rogue

iolanthe07 wrote: »

The advice in Motorhome mags is to take a copy of our relevant traffic regulations translated into the language of which ever country you're visiting to show to local police. Under EU law if it's legal here then it is also legal when visiting another EU country. Foreign plod often doesn't seem to understand this underlying principle.

Sorry, don't believe that for one second.