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Council Tax Reform
Guy_Montag
Posts: 2,291 Forumite
Being discussed on Radio 4 this morning is the suggestion that council tax should be replaced with a 1% property value tax as used in Denmark. There will be no upper limit.
Discuss!
Discuss!
"Mrs. Pench, you've won the car contest, would you like a triumph spitfire or 3000 in cash?" He smiled.
Mrs. Pench took the money. "What will you do with it all? Not that it's any of my business," he giggled.
"I think I'll become an alcoholic," said Betty.
Mrs. Pench took the money. "What will you do with it all? Not that it's any of my business," he giggled.
"I think I'll become an alcoholic," said Betty.
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Comments
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A number of states in America use this system if not all of them. Problems are (especially at present) falling revenues for the local authority as prices fall, plus people not paying them due to repossession (and "short sales"). Some areas also have protected properties due to voter intervention from groups like pensioners where their fixed incomes were getting caned by rapidly rising prices. California and Florida come to mind.
It works OK when everything is going along nicely, but when the ups and downs of the market hit, it starts to hurt.A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
the difficulty with this sort of approach is "1% of what" what you bought the house for? What its valued at today? What?
My grandparents bought thier house for 200 pounds in the 50s, its "worth" about 600k now.
LIkewise my parents bought thier house for 89 about 10 years ago, one on thier road sold for 340 back in 04, now ones on the market on thier avenue for 210, not sold.
Im certain the councils would not be able ( or skilled enough- who is, even EAs are not) to value the properties. In peaks, slumps & crashes, would the council have to literally constantly survey.
Youd have this weird relationship where owners want thier house to be worth more in the marketplace, but worth less to the council.
I just dont think we have the skill base or infrastructure to deal with it.... certainly not at the moment.
What did they say guy on this issue?:beer: Well aint funny how its the little things in life that mean the most? Not where you live, the car you drive or the price tag on your clothes.
Theres no dollar sign on piece of mind
This Ive come to know...
So if you agree have a drink with me, raise your glasses for a toast :beer:0 -
Err, either I missed it or it's not come up yet, will probably be discussed on R5 later.
To cover booming & busting revenues - during times of booming house prices people generally feel wealthier & can afford to pay higher tax, during busts everyone needs to tighten their belts - even councils.
As to revaluing the initial point could be set on the purchase price, then index linked to the regional* LR increase/decreases.
*local IMO does not generally provide enough of a sample."Mrs. Pench, you've won the car contest, would you like a triumph spitfire or 3000 in cash?" He smiled.
Mrs. Pench took the money. "What will you do with it all? Not that it's any of my business," he giggled.
"I think I'll become an alcoholic," said Betty.0 -
To cover booming & busting revenues - during times of booming house prices people generally feel wealthier & can afford to pay higher tax, during busts everyone needs to tighten their belts - even councils.
just because they "feel wealthier" doesnt mean they are. As we have discussed infinitum with the MEWing issue.
My grandparents certainly dont feel wealthier now than they did pre-retirement. They have a 600k house, but a fixed amount of money coming in month in month out. Most of us do- lets face it.:beer: Well aint funny how its the little things in life that mean the most? Not where you live, the car you drive or the price tag on your clothes.
Theres no dollar sign on piece of mind
This Ive come to know...
So if you agree have a drink with me, raise your glasses for a toast :beer:0 -
There is an argument, though I'm not sure agree, that your grandparents are clogging up a 3 or 4 bed house - which should really be being used by a family & your grandparents should be living in a smaller, more appropriate house."Mrs. Pench, you've won the car contest, would you like a triumph spitfire or 3000 in cash?" He smiled.
Mrs. Pench took the money. "What will you do with it all? Not that it's any of my business," he giggled.
"I think I'll become an alcoholic," said Betty.0 -
IIRC it works on sale prices. So it goes on the most recent price a house sold for then the local authority is allowed a small % annual increase on that amount. This is where it then gets bent out of line. In periods of high price rises pensioners were getting big tax bills so voted to get the amount of rise allowed limited to 1-2% in some states. So, using Lynz parents as an example, if they managed this in say 1976, their tax would be based on their house price in 1976 plus 30 small increments. The buyer of the identical house next door who paid £500,000 for it last year gets a £5000 bill.
The problem they are now hitting in parts of America are that people have paid stupid prices for their McMansions (as they are known) and as the repos and short sales start, and the values fall, the tax take drops with it. So the local authority take drops markedly and what they were promising to spend the money on at the last election is now impossible to square with the other commitments and income.A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
Guy_Montag wrote: »There is an argument, though I'm not sure agree, that your grandparents are clogging up a 3 or 4 bed house - which should really be being used by a family & your grandparents should be living in a smaller, more appropriate house.
there is.I personally do agree, and Ive encouraged them to. however, they are simply not well enough to move.:beer: Well aint funny how its the little things in life that mean the most? Not where you live, the car you drive or the price tag on your clothes.
Theres no dollar sign on piece of mind
This Ive come to know...
So if you agree have a drink with me, raise your glasses for a toast :beer:0 -
I personally don't see why any form of local taxes should be based upon the value of your house at all. IMO, poll tax was fairer.(AKA HRH_MUngo)
Member #10 of £2 savers club
Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton0 -
Poll tax takes no account of ability to pay or income. If you want to start arguing about paying for what you, as an individual, use, it starts to get silly too.seven-day-weekend wrote: »I personally don't see why any form of local taxes should be based upon the value of your house at all. IMO, poll tax was fairer.A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
I feet the PRINCIPAL of poll tax is fairer (i.e. we all have the services; we all pay the tax). However I do think ability to pay should be taken into consideration and the poorest amongst us should be entitled to ebnefits as they are now.
Having a rate based on the value of your house doesn't take in ability to pay, either.(AKA HRH_MUngo)
Member #10 of £2 savers club
Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton0
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