Solicitor added himself as Administrator

itsanne

When my mother had PoA made for my brother and me several years ago she had a new will drawn up by the solicitor who dealt with that. I didn't see it at that time but knew its contents - everything split equally between my siblings and me with the two of us who have PoA as executors. That was the same as her previous will.

Last weekend my mother suggested I read the will. The solicitor has included himself as an executor and also appointed himself as the Administrator and Legal Agent. The relevant section reads as follows:

I appoint Messrs. XXXXX Solicitors, Address XXXX, to be the Administrators and Legal Agents in my estate and to make the usual professional charges therfor.

My mother did not intend to include the solicitor in any way and was horrified to discover that this was included in the will. I suspect she didn't really look at the contents before signing as she was still very stressed after my father's death and the loss of his will by the previous solicitor (hence the change). However, considering the time that has elapsed and that she signed the will, I can't see the solicitor changing it free of charge.

My intention, with which she agrees, is to rewrite the will without that section and without the solicitor as an executor and then write to him to let him know that she has a new will. Before doing so, I have two questions. We are in Scotland, in case that has any bearing on the answers.

1 Is there any reason why I should not use the exact wording of the rest of the will? She has already paid for the time taken to have it written and it would not be being changed if the 'extras' she did not request had not been added.

2 Should we do anything to provide evidence that my mother is capable of making this decision herself? Although my brother and I have PoA and I generally deal with paperwork / financial matters, she is very capable of doing most things for herself and still has all her marbles! However, because of the PoA I am particularly conscious of not wanting to appear to have exerted undue influence over her. That won't be a problem with relation to my siblings, but as the solicitor had included himself .....

I would appreciate any thoughts with this.

FreeBear

itsanne wrote: »

2 Should we do anything to provide evidence that my mother is capable of making this decision herself? Although my brother and I have PoA and I generally deal with paperwork / financial matters, she is very capable of doing most things for herself and still has all her marbles! However, because of the PoA I am particularly conscious of not wanting to appear to have exerted undue influence over her. That won't be a problem with relation to my siblings, but as the solicitor had included himself .....

Your mother could do a codicil to amend the will and appoint new executors. That would save having to rewrite the entire document and getting duly witnessed and signed. Depending on how long ago the will was originally drawn up, it may be worth getting it reviewed in light of changes to inheritance laws and recent high court rulings in probate cases - Not sure if anything has changed significantly in Scotland, so it would be worth a check.

Most certainly wheel your mother off to see her GP and get a statement of testamentary capacity and make sure a copy is bundled with the will - I'm glad my mother got a statement when she did as it would help if anyone challenged the will on the grounds of mental capacity (she was diagnosed with dementia less than 12 months later).

itsanne

FreeBear wrote: »

Your mother could do a codicil to amend the will and appoint new executors. That would save having to rewrite the entire document and getting duly witnessed and signed. Depending on how long ago the will was originally drawn up, it may be worth getting it reviewed in light of changes to inheritance laws and recent high court rulings in probate cases - Not sure if anything has changed significantly in Scotland, so it would be worth a check.

Most certainly wheel your mother off to see her GP and get a statement of testamentary capacity and make sure a copy is bundled with the will - I'm glad my mother got a statement when she did as it would help if anyone challenged the will on the grounds of mental capacity (she was diagnosed with dementia less than 12 months later).

Thanks. My brother and I are listed as executors, we just don't need (and Mum hadn't intended) the solicitor as well. The bigger issue is the other one, where his firm will be paid for things we could do ourselves. The will is about five years old, but there have been no changes in Scotland so far. (There has been consultation.) I'm happy enough to rewrite (possibly fuelled by annoyance!) and witnessing signatures won't be a problem.

The GP idea is a good one.

TBagpuss

A codicl has to be signed and witnessed exactly as a will does. It is often beter to have a new will as it reduces the risk of any confusion or contradiction

I am not familiar with Scottish Law but I would have thought that the people who could challenge the new will (i.e. raise questions as to your mum's capacity) would be anyone who was a beneficiairy under the old will but not the new.

However, if you are concerned, she could ask her doctor to provide a letter confirmign that s/he was satisfied that our mother had capacity on the day she signs the new will. The doctor may charge for this.

In terms of the wording, you are doing anything wrong by copying the old will, but of couse no one here can see the wording or comment on whether it is appropriate.

It may also be worth your mum speaking to the solicitor who drew up the will. It is unlikley that they included themselves without her consent, even if she doesn't remember them discussing it. If the solicitor is included jointly with you they may be able to confirm that they would be happy to renounce their appointment as executor if you and your sibling are happy to deal with eveything when the time comes.

Mojisola

TBagpuss wrote: »

It may also be worth your mum speaking to the solicitor who drew up the will. It is unlikley that they included themselves without her consent, even if she doesn't remember them discussing it.

The will will be on their computer - it's very easy to make the change required.

I did something similar about a year after a new will was made when one alteration needed to be made. I was emailed the new version, read it through, they printed it off and I called in their office to get it signed and witnessed. Our solicitor charged about £25 for the few minutes of his time.

itsanne

TBagpuss wrote: »

A codicl has to be signed and witnessed exactly as a will does. It is often beter to have a new will as it reduces the risk of any confusion or contradiction

I am not familiar with Scottish Law but I would have thought that the people who could challenge the new will (i.e. raise questions as to your mum's capacity) would be anyone who was a beneficiairy under the old will but not the new.

However, if you are concerned, she could ask her doctor to provide a letter confirmign that s/he was satisfied that our mother had capacity on the day she signs the new will. The doctor may charge for this.

In terms of the wording, you are doing anything wrong by copying the old will, but of couse no one here can see the wording or comment on whether it is appropriate.

It may also be worth your mum speaking to the solicitor who drew up the will. It is unlikley that they included themselves without her consent, even if she doesn't remember them discussing it. If the solicitor is included jointly with you they may be able to confirm that they would be happy to renounce their appointment as executor if you and your sibling are happy to deal with eveything when the time comes.

Mojisola wrote: »

The will will be on their computer - it's very easy to make the change required.

I did something similar about a year after a new will was made when one alteration needed to be made. I was emailed the new version, read it through, they printed it off and I called in their office to get it signed and witnessed. Our solicitor charged about £25 for the few minutes of his time.

Thank you,TBagpuss and Mojisola.

My own thoughts were that a new will would be simplest. None of the beneficiaries would challenge it - I wondered about the solicitor. Apart from anything else, everything is split completely equally between the four of us (ie my mother's children).

I'm as confident as can be that there is nothing wrong with the will per se, which is why copying it seems the sensible way forward.

If it had just been the inclusion of the solicitor as an executor I would probably have simply asked for that to be removed: it's the other part, appointing his firm as Administrator and Legal Agents, which is of more concern and taking that out seems likely to be a bigger deal because of the loss of revenue it entails. The irony is that we would have used them for anything we felt required a solicitor but are now apprehensive about doing so.

I think my mother would be happiest with a new will. She already had a fairly new one when this one was made, but she wanted nothing further to do with the previous solicitors as they had made an absolute mess of things after my father died, including losing his will. Given how she felt about things at that time I would be surprised if she had agreed to the amount of involvement this one has included, but can't say categorically that she didn't.

paddy's_mum

The solicitor cannot challenge being removed from the existing will as his role does not exist (if you see what I mean) until the moment of death.

In your shoes, I would probably just do a straightforward copy of the present will minus the clause and ask your mother's GP to be one of the witnesses to her signing it!

teddysmum

Solicitors seem to charge huge amounts for administering a will, as we have recently found out (family and husband's friend).


The friend was so shocked at the charge for executing his relative's very simple will that he asked for a breakdown of the cost. This he received and found that one phone call and one letter cost an amazing £280.

itsanne

Thanks to all who responded. Having spoken with my mother this evening, we'll go ahead with rewriting the will without the solicitor in it.

Yorkshireman99

Get it done properly. Free, or cheap wills here.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/family/2014/03/free-wills-month

itsanne

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Get it done properly. Free, or cheap wills here.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/family/2014/03/free-wills-month

Thanks, but March isn't free wills month in Scotland. However, it should be properly done if I just take the contentious part out as it was written by a solicitor in the first place. We have no reason to think he's incompetent.