Hotpoint Farce - Warning, quite long

CrazyRed

Hi all,

Don't normally frequent this Forum, but I have been known to dabble through the threads occasionally to get some advice....

I have a situation, which I THINK I'm right in sticking to my guns with, but would appreciate any, and all, advice please:-

The whole situation revolves around a Hotpoint Tumble Dryer.

My original Hotpoint machine lasted a shade under ten years and was written off by my domestic appliance insurers (D&G) in November as uneconomic to repair, after a number of breakdowns. So far, so good.

The machine they replaced it with (I have the older "like-for-like replacement" policy with D&G) was the modern equivalent of my old machine - however, this particular machine was subject to the well-publicised recall/modification so we logged it on Hotpoint's website immediately.

Hotpoint then chose to replace the machine, rather than repair it - this was a few days before Christmas 2015.

From day one, we suspected that the replacement machine had a fault as the clothes weren't drying properly and the machine needed to be run twice for each load. Hotpoint were contacted and the engineer sent out diagnosed that one of the sensors was faulty. This time (this machine was only about three days 'old' when all this happened) they elected to repair it and, to this end, we waited another 10 days for all the parts to come in and the engineer to be sent back to repair it.

One new sensor and, apparently, one new control board later, during engineer testing he found the machine was STILL exhibiting the same fault, so he phoned Head Office for advice and guidance. By this stage, the machine was, roughly, 3 weeks old.

Head Office told him that they'd exchange it, again, so he left us and left it with us that Hotpoint would call to arrange the exchange.

This call was received (now, this is where the real fun starts) and we decided to 'upgrade' the machine we'd been given on the insurance to a considerably better model in the hope that the better-quality machine would last us the way the original had - I need to add here that my wife is disabled, so "any old tumble dryer" won't do - because of limited mobility and low strength in her arms, there are certain criteria that a TD has to meet in this house to be of any use to her, in particular. The best-quality machine, that would suit her needs, was a heat-pump model - but, the upgrade 'cost' from Hotpoint was £199. I duly wafted the jolly old credit card in front of her and told her to pay the fee and we looked forwards to receiving an end to our tumble dryer woes - date now was Feb 8th this year.

Machine number 3 arrived the following Thursday (11th) and, when unwrapped, was shown to have been damaged either in transit or in the warehouse - the top left of the casing had been damaged and the water "drawer" was jammed shut and could not be moved - not ideal on a condenser tumble dryer, where the drawer needs to be removed each time it is used to empty it!

Cue yet more phone calls to Hotpoint and, after initially offering us a financial incentive to keep the machine, once we explained the fault fully, they decided to exchange it.

Machine number 4 turned up that Saturday and was unwrapped by the drivers, plugged in and briefly tested. All appeared in order, so my wife loaded it with it's first load and left it to do its job. I came in from shopping to note that the machine was showing "Time remaining" of one minute - where it sat for the next hour with the machine running!

Further investigation showed that the drum was not turning and therefore, the sensor was actually reporting correctly - the wet, folded, clothes were sat against the sensor!

Another phone call to Hotpoint and ANOTHER exchange organised. By this time, I was pretty narked and dropped Hotpoint a message on the FB page (copying it to PM as well) expressing my displeasure - I wasn't rude, but in hindsight, I WAS probably a touch sarcastic.

Machine number 5 arrived Friday evening, 19th February. Really helpful driver, and he was more than happy to wait whilst we tested the machine for a few minutes (I think the guy was grateful for the chance to take a short rest, actually - we were his 30th exchange of the day!). Loaded the machine with a (dry) towel and set it to work.

Happy days, could hear the towel happily trundling round in the drum, fans all working, heater working, no damage to the case, wonderful.

For thirty seconds. The drum slowed down at a couple of points during it's rotation and then seized absolutely solid less than five revolutions later - in front of the driver - with the motor audibly jammed as well.

Obviously, he took this one, and machine 4, away with him immediately and I then updated my earlier FB thread (and the PM) with my further displeasure. This time, I was not sarcastic, but the tone I used in the message would have left nobody in any doubt that I was Somewhat Miffed.

By this point, anyone still awake and following this diatribe would recognise that my patience was stretched wafer-thin and I really had little faith in Hotpoint at all. 5 machines, in a couple of months, is simply unacceptable - especially when three of them had been so-called 'top of the range' models. To this end, I decided to really bite the bullet and order a different make and model from my VERY account - decision, by this stage, being driven by delivery slots available. After a bit of discussion and looking at the pictures therein, I 'hit the button' on a Bosch dryer that could be delivered on Monday.

This Monday bought a response from Hotpoint. They'd like to offer me a different condenser dryer and my 'upgrade fee' back, if I'd like to accept that (RRP of the 'new' dryer on offer was £299). I replied that I wouldn't accept that, because I had little faith left in the brand or it's products and, in any case, I'd now ordered elsewhere and was awaiting delivery - as I'd warned them I would do in my FB post a week earlier. My preference was for a full refund of not only my 'upgrade' fee but also the equivalent of the cost of the initial replacement machine and we'd thus call the matter closed.

The next request was for a purchase receipt of my first replacement dryer - which of course I couldn't give them, but I did refer the operative I was dealing with back to Hotpoint's own systems which should have all the information required - others had found our entire 'case history' from nothing else than our surname and postcode so it seemed logical that this guy could as well.

So, the next request was for a receipt, not for my replacement dryer, but my ORIGINAL one - that I'd bought in 2005 from a (now defunct) retailer!

Of course, I couldn't provide that (despite turning out a lot of drawers and envelopes last night) BUT I did find an old repair document for the original tumble dryer that gave the serial number, date of installation and "date code" of the appliance, so I passed on all this information, along with the fact that I seemed to remember my original machine costing around the £250 mark (indeed, the RRP of the model that was sent as the LFL replacement was around that figure)

This morning's offer was "£100 and your upgrade fee back" that I knocked back immediately as insulting and derisory - especially considering that yesterday's offer was a £300 machine and my 'upgrade fee' back. A couple of hours later, the offer was upped to £175 plus my upgrade fee, final offer, take it or leave it.

I said that I wasn't happy that, effectively, the first (November) tumble dryer had "depreciated" by £75 and that "depreciation" was for my account. His response was that, because I'd bought the ORIGINAL machine in 2005, they weren't prepared to increase their offer, although I could, if I wished, email "the service centre".

No, I don't wish to email "the service centre" - as far as I am concerned, my contract for supply is with Whirlpool UK Appliances Limited and my dealings under consumer legislation (and the DSR's) should be with Whirlpool, not Indesit's "Service Centre". At this point, the reply that came back was basically that this was their final offer, take it or leave it, or escalate through "the service centre".

So, I HAVE emailed "the service centre" and await their reply in due course. I've also triggered off a s75 claim with my credit card provider, because I'm now Pretty Miffed about all this and, on principle, the only remedy I'd expect to receive is a FULL refund of my 'upgrade fee' AND the equivalent of the cost of the replacement tumble dryer that was sent out in November.

Am I right, here, or should I actually have accepted their lower offer? My gut feel says that I shouldn't, and I didn't, but there IS a little nagging doubt at the back of my mind. I've not yet replied to the "take it or leave it" FB message from them.

Sorry it's so long, but I wanted to give a full picture so you don't think I'm ranting and raving over nothing. I feel I've got a case for a full refund and I believe that I'm within my rights to dig my heels in and insist on one.

Any advice, please?

bris

Is there a short version?

AJXX

Sorry this is fairly long and I somewhat got lost along the way.

How much have you actually paid since November? From what I understand this is an "upgrade fee" of £199 - this is therefore your actual costs.

As far as I can tell they're offering you a refund of £199 PLUS £100 goodwill gesture for the inconvenience - therefore they're offering you £299.

This seems completely fair to me, your costs have been reimbursed + extra for the inconvenience.

You're not entitle to your perceived costs of the free replacement model offered in November. Also there is a difference between them offering a £300 "value" machine and giving you £300 in cash.

Sorry if I have this totally wrong - I did skim read.

Tigsteroonie

I read it to the end, do I get a prize?

I'm wondering whether your upgrade fee should be refunded by Hotpoint, but the original purchase price should be refunded by the insurers D&G? As you are not taking the option of "like for like replacement" ... Although Hotpoint would be the supplier of that like for like, it would be funded by the insurance policy.

I'd be interested to hear what others think.

CrazyRed

AJXX wrote: »

Sorry this is fairly long and I somewhat got lost along the way.

How much have you actually paid since November? From what I understand this is an "upgrade fee" of £199 - this is therefore your actual costs.

As far as I can tell they're offering you a refund of £199 PLUS £100 goodwill gesture for the inconvenience - therefore they're offering you £299.

This seems completely fair to me, your costs have been reimbursed + extra for the inconvenience.

You're not entitle to your perceived costs of the free replacement model offered in November.

Sorry if I have this totally wrong - I did skim read.

My apologies for the length of the OP. I wanted to get everything down to give a full picture to anyone kind enough to read and reply.

My actual costs since November are £199 in the "upgrade fee" BUT in addition, Hotpoint currently have BOTH my tumble dryers - the original (insurance) replacement and the (faulty) heat pump machine.

The offer from Hotpoint WAS NOT any form of "inconvenience" offer - the operative I was dealing with was quite specific - the offer related to the cost of my original replacement tumble dryer, that he acknowledged that they had in their possession.

wealdroam

Isn't there another Hotpoint dryer thread around here somewhere?

CrazyRed

wealdroam wrote: »

Isn't there another Hotpoint dryer thread around here somewhere?

Yes, but from what I could see, that one was sticking to the modification/recall programme and problems with that. My issue was/is different so I elected to start another thread to avoid derailing the 'main' one.

vuvuzela

I have to confess I lost the will to live partway through reading the OP, just wondering how much do you pay a month/year for this policy to cover your £250 tumble dryer ?

unholyangel

For anyone wanting the shortened version:

Basically OP had extended warranty with D&G on machine purchased 2005. This was replaced with a like for like model in november last year which was subject to the recall.

Hotpoint replaced it. Also faulty, so OP paid £199 for a better model. Which was also faulty. OP has purchased replacement from Very due to repeated problems with hotpoint. Hotpoint asked for proof of value of the machine they owe OP for (insurance replacement) but OP has no receipt for it as it was an insurance replacement so provided what he could about cost of the original 2005 machine.

Hotpoint have offered to refund £199 upgrade fee paid to hotpoint and also £175 for the insurance replacement. OP doesn't feel this is adequate as insurance replacement has a RRP of £299 and the original machine from 2005 was around £250 he thinks.

unholyangel

OP, if you're not happy with your offer, you're going to need to prove your losses.

Possible ways of doing this might be asking D&G to send proof of value. Or seeing what price the machine sells for now (check around for prices - you have a statutory duty to mitigate your losses and to make savings where reasonably possible) - print those out and send it to hotpoint.

I find D&G policies to be very bad value. Usually if you pay the premiums for 3 years, you've paid enough to buy a replacement machine anyway. Better to set up a high interest account and pay the same money into that each month - at least if you do need to use it, it clears up any confusion possibly created if things go wrong like your current situation.

You are going to need to evidence your losses somehow though if you want to increase their offer.

Leo2020

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

I read it to the end, do I get a prize?

I'm wondering whether your upgrade fee should be refunded by Hotpoint, but the original purchase price should be refunded by the insurers D&G? As you are not taking the option of "like for like replacement" ... Although Hotpoint would be the supplier of that like for like, it would be funded by the insurance policy.

I'd be interested to hear what others think.

My bold. But they did take the like for like replacement. Therefore I think D&G have fulfilled there end of the bargain. Unless there is something in the D&G policy which states that if a fault occurs with the replacement they will repair/replace again but I some how doubt that. The only possible argument could be, and I repeat could, is that the dryer had an inherent fault and therefore D&G never offered a satisfactory replacement. If this could be argued then D&G would be responsible for offering another replacement. But they would not be responsible for offering a full refund as that is not what the policy covers.

From reading the original post, the OP wants betterment. They have had use of a machine for 10 years yet they want a full refund of the purchase price. I doubt they will get this from Hotpoint, why should the refund the whole cost of the original purchase? The OP didn't even buy it from them. The have offered £175 for a 10 year old dryer - thats a decent offer bearing in mind that I doubt a working 10 year old dryer wouldn't be worth that.