MPs debate transitional state pension arrangements for women

brewerdave

I,too, am in favour of the free bus pass - here in Wales it keeps a lot of the bus services running as they are generally the preserve of the pensioner classes during the day - helps the environment by reducing the number of car journeys and solves the car parking issues in the local towns. I (for one) would not pay £3.50 per trip on the bus -I would jump in the car and add to the congestion issues!!

xylophone

Is wise council.

Which council is wise?:) The one that gives the concession or the one that doesn't?

What counsel would you give the council?

http://grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/council_counsel.htm

AnotherJoe

tinacee1 wrote: »

Just noticed that if you are 60 or over you get free travel in London. Also in Scotland and Northern Ireland. This is very unfair on over 60's in other parts of England who don't qualify. I've been looking to see if there is an online petition running that people can sign to make provision for the over 60's who live in the areas in England not covered. Very unfair.

Please show how it's unfair, taking into account the different council tax rates in each district. I assume you've done that work ? It wouldnt be unfair for example if the district that did have it had half the council taxes of an area that had "free" transport, but I'm sure you took that into account so would be good to see your workings.

Or if not or perhaps a petition on the unfairness of different council tax rates. But then again they may be driven by employment, so a petition on the different job opportunities in different parts of the country. Then again, housing plays a big part, eg someone in London gets free transport but has to pay 5x the rent, so perhaps also a petition on housing costs.

Indeed you could wrap all those petitions up into one and call it, oh I don't know, how about, say "a general election" ?

bigadaj

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Please show how it's unfair, taking into account the different council tax rates in each district. I assume you've done that work ? It wouldnt be unfair for example if the district that did have it had half the council taxes of an area that had "free" transport, but I'm sure you took that into account so would be good to see your workings.

Or if not or perhaps a petition on the unfairness of different council tax rates. But then again they may be driven by employment, so a petition on the different job opportunities in different parts of the country. Then again, housing plays a big part, eg someone in London gets free transport but has to pay 5x the rent, so perhaps also a petition on housing costs.

Indeed you could wrap all those petitions up into one and call it, oh I don't know, how about, say "a general election" ?

Well council tax is an anomaly that should be amended. London taxes are generally much less than most if the rest of the country, on houses that are several times the price.

Teaandscones

As someone some years off getting a free bus pass, I am also strongly in favour of keeping them. They are vital when trying to persuade relatives in their 80's or 90's who should really give up driving.

bowlhead99

bigadaj wrote: »

Well council tax is an anomaly that should be amended. London taxes are generally much less than most if the rest of the country, on houses that are several times the price.

Well, the local council services that you consume over your life are unlikely to be driven by the square footage or the absolute price of the house you end up in. A person who chooses to buy a newish car for £20k every few years instead of building up a £50k house deposit may not actually use the local library, school, police or other council services like refuse collection or street lighting any more or less than someone who prefers the house.

And someone whose property costs are higher than the average for the country as a proportion of their salary because they ended up in an expensive part of the world to get a place to live, doesn't necessarily have any extra spare money that they could afford to spend on taxes.

It's probably fairer for councils to charge a standard tax on everyone who's old enough to have a vote. We could call it a "poll tax". However, for some reason, there would be rioting in the street, so we can't.

saver861

bowlhead99 wrote: »

It's probably fairer for councils to charge a standard tax on everyone who's old enough to have a vote. We could call it a "poll tax". However, for some reason, there would be rioting in the street, so we can't.

Well I do 25% less mileage now than I did when I was a working feller .... but I'm still paying same amount of car tax.

Mrs S drives not more than two or thee thousand miles a year and pays same car tax as Joe Smith down the road who does 70K miles a year.

p00hsticks

saver861 wrote: »

Well I do 25% less mileage now than I did when I was a working feller .... but I'm still paying same amount of car tax.

Mrs S drives not more than two or thee thousand miles a year and pays same car tax as Joe Smith down the road who does 70K miles a year.

But Joe Smith will be paying considerably more fuel duty than Mrs S - the road tax for him will be pretty inconsequential as a proportion of the overall tax/duty he pays to drive.

jamesd

GibbsRule_No3 wrote: »

London 60+ card ... This card probably saves the health service quite a bit of money. It means people who do take it up can get out and keep active both physically and mentally.

Most of the spend for it is on commuters going to work each day, like Tom Utley who in 2014 wrote that he was saving £1,913.60 a year on his commute, equivalent to £3,189.30 of his higher rate taxed income.

I don't really think that paying the cost of high earners commuting to and from work is what the public face of the pan was, though it's unsurprising that such regular journeys have become a high part of the cost.

It's a great benefit but I don't think the spending is being very well targeted to those who need the help. Or even just not to those who have the highest earned incomes. You can be retired at 50, 55 or earlier and not get it but be working full time up to any age and still get it.

bigadaj

bowlhead99 wrote: »

Well, the local council services that you consume over your life are unlikely to be driven by the square footage or the absolute price of the house you end up in. A person who chooses to buy a newish car for £20k every few years instead of building up a £50k house deposit may not actually use the local library, school, police or other council services like refuse collection or street lighting any more or less than someone who prefers the house.

And someone whose property costs are higher than the average for the country as a proportion of their salary because they ended up in an expensive part of the world to get a place to live, doesn't necessarily have any extra spare money that they could afford to spend on taxes.

It's probably fairer for councils to charge a standard tax on everyone who's old enough to have a vote. We could call it a "poll tax". However, for some reason, there would be rioting in the street, so we can't.

Vey much depends on your viewpoint.

As you state the poll tax idea didn't really work out, some people would argue for a single flat rate income tax but again that doesn't seem like coming any time soon.

The problem seems to be that whilst you might want to reduce taxes then the only real effect seems to be that people spend more of their income on housing in any case. The U.K. has a fairly unique view on housing co,pared with much of the rest of the world and obviously house price inflation is viewed as a good thing, unlike most other forms of inflation, though the latter has been recently over ridden by the spectre of deflation.

To go back to the original point about council tax then the real issue is that variations aren't direct and transparent. It would be perfectly acceptable to increase council tax with an electoral mandate whereby people make a choice between Keble,s of tax and service. In reality this doesn't occur due to massively varying levels of central government support and interference such as rate capping.