MPs debate transitional state pension arrangements for women

jamesd

cannyshopper wrote: »

We ARE however entitled to fair treatment.

So tell us, what do you believe would be fair treatment to the women who would have a lower state pension if their state pension age was reduced so that they are no longer eligible for the single tier pension but instead are under the current rules? You are aware, I hope, that the single tier rules are considerably more generous overall to women than the current rules?

Or perhaps you didn't even consider the women who would lose out substantially if their state pension age was reduced to 60 so that it was reached before 6 April 2016?

mgdavid

cannyshopper wrote: »

are you aware that men currently aged between 63 and 65 can get pension credit, despite not being eligible for their state pension?


women can only get pension credit once they reach SPA.

yet another red herring.....
why did WASPI not campaign to rectify this too?

jamesd

cannyshopper wrote: »

are you aware that men currently aged between 63 and 65 can get pension credit, despite not being eligible for their state pension? ... women can only get pension credit once they reach SPA.

Any person, man or woman, is eligible today for the Pension Guarantee Credit part of Pension Credit at the same ages:

Date of birth				When you can claim Pension Credit
6 November 1952 to 5 December 1952 	6 July 2015
6 December 1952 to 5 January 1953 	6 September 2015
6 January 1953 to 5 February 1953 	6 November 2015
6 February 1953 to 5 March 1953 	6 January 2016
6 March 1953 to 5 April 1953 		6 March 2016
6 April 1953 to 5 May 1953 		6 July 2016

Those ages are the ones for women's current state pension ages because otherwise the Pension Credit system would be discriminating against men based on their gender.

The Savings Credit part of Pension Credit is available to both men and women from age 65 but this part of Pension Credit is abolished for those who reach state pension age from 6 April 2016 onwards.

As I hope you are aware, Pension Credit is a means tested benefit so people are first required to spend much of their savings before they will be eligible for anything, with that starting for those who have savings over £10,000. Pension Credit isn't a substitute for the non means tested state pension.

Naturally I am pleased that Pension Guarantee Credit does not discriminate on the basis of gender but this still does not change the reality that you are seeking an increase in gender discrimination in the state pension system.

However, since you have raised this means tested benefit, what are you saying should happen to the age at which it can be claimed if state pension age is reduced for some women and who are you saying should pay for that change?

zagfles

jamesd wrote: »

We all are, including those you want to discriminate against on the basis of their gender. As Social Security Minister Lord Mackay observed in 1993, European law does not permit gender discrimination in private sector pensions any more:

"In 1990 the European Court of Justice ruled that occupational pensions constituted part of pay and must be equal for men and women in respect of pensionable service from 17th May 1990. The great majority of schemes which have equalised their pension ages have done so at 65. The Bill will bring domestic legislation into line with the requirements of European law by requiring schemes to comply with an equal treatment rule which ensures that schemes do not discriminate on grounds of sex."

There are still some ways occ pensions discriminate.

GMPs are paid at different ages for men and women so that causes discrimination, although it's not a simple case of discriminating against men or women, it depends on circumstances & scheme rules, in some cases it would discriminate against men, in some cases women, and in some cases a woman would initially be better off but as they get older a man would start becoming better off! Google GMP equalisation - it's causing headaches in the pensions industry and govt!

Also some scheme like the LGPS scheme have different early retirement factors for men and women! Really can't see how they can get away with this!

zagfles

cannyshopper wrote: »

are you aware that men currently aged between 63 and 65 can get pension credit, despite not being eligible for their state pension?


women can only get pension credit once they reach SPA.

Pension credit was a new benefit in around 2000 or so - there was no way the govt could have got away with different qualifying ages for men and women for a new benefit, so they had no choice but to set teh same age for both men and women. They chose the women's SPA.

JezR

The earliest government report I have found that considers re-equalisation of the pension age dates from 1958, so consideration of the matter had been going on for a very long time. The only change that did occur then was the Graduated Pension.

cannyshopper_2

jamesd wrote: »

<snip>

As I hope you are aware, Pension Credit is a means tested benefit so people are first required to spend much of their savings before they will be eligible for anything, with that starting for those who have savings over £10,000. Pension Credit isn't a substitute for the non means tested state pension.

Naturally I am pleased that Pension Guarantee Credit does not discriminate on the basis of gender but this still does not change the reality that you are seeking an increase in gender discrimination in the state pension system.

However, since you have raised this means tested benefit, what are you saying should happen to the age at which it can be claimed if state pension age is reduced for some women and who are you saying should pay for that change?

Pension credit should be exactly that: a top-up for those whose pension is inadequate. (The way it is currently implemented smells of a neat way the government can fudge the unemployment figures for older workers - but that's irrelevant to the argument)

I raised this because pension credit is indeed means-tested, and when it is paid to men in their 60's who aren't working, it absolves them from having to sign on and prove they are actively seeking work. Unemployed women approaching their pension age have no such concession.

The only PEOPLE I am asking to have their pension age reduced are those for whom the 2011 Act gave them less than 10 years notice of the change. This affects men as well as women.

cannyshopper_2

Regarding the pension changes from 2016:
The headline figure of £155 is NOT an automatic basic rate. The Govt has acknowledged that many thousands of people are going to be disadvantaged in the early years of the scheme (hence the need for messy transitional arrangements, just to confuse the issue).

Many, if not most, people retiring before 6 April 2016 get more than the basic State Pension amount because of the other various schemes over the years (starting with Graduated etc etc) so you are not comparing like-for-like.

eg my ex-husband retired last month: his basic state pension is about £162 pw because of the additions for GPS etc. He was contracted out for many years so it is doubtful if he would get as much as £155 under the new rules which the general public seems to think is the basic entitlement.

For those without personal pensions, the amount they actually get should take them just over the limit to need to claim Pension Credit, so its not actually more generous than the existing hotch-potch of means-tested benefits. It just moves some Govt spending from the general welfare benefits pot into the pension pot.

greenglide

his basic state pension is about £162 pw

No. The current rate of Basic Pension is £119.35. Anything above that includes Additional Pension which is not "basic".

jamesd

cannyshopper wrote: »

I raised this because pension credit is indeed means-tested, and when it is paid to men in their 60's who aren't working, it absolves them from having to sign on and prove they are actively seeking work. Unemployed women approaching their pension age have no such concession.

Unemployed woman at Pension Credit age do not have any work requirement at all because they are eligible for their state pension instead. Not just the women who pass the means test, all of them, whatever their level of income and savings.