Absolute mess, don't know where to begin

Crowdedhouse_2

My cousin died recently. She has been estranged from all the family on and off over the years. I hadn't seen her for at least 4 years, myself. She was a chronic alcoholic, lived alone, unemployed, single, no children. Her mother (my aunt) who is 88 is her next of kin.

My cousin is still in the hands of the coroner awaiting a post mortem. I'm dealing with the coroner, as my aunt doesn't want to deal with it.

I accompanied my aunt to my cousin's house today in the hopes of perhaps finding a will so we could go start thinking about her funeral. My cousin's friend was waiting outside the house with a set of keys as we had no way of getting in.

We went in and the house is an absolute tip. The first thing we saw was loads and loads of unopened post. At least several years' worth. A lot of the rooms we couldn't actually get into because they were so piled up with clothes and stuff. We gave up searching for the will, if indeed one exists at all, after a while because we just didn't know where to look. It was really hard to move around in there and I was worried my aunt might fall and hurt herself.

The house was bought and paid for by my aunt many years ago although it is in my cousin's name.

At this point, my cousin's friend stated to me, out of my aunt's earshot, "you do know she's remortgaged this house 6 or 7 times, don't you? She's up to her neck in debt." Well, that was the first I'd heard about it! I'm going to have to pluck up the courage to break this news to my aunt in the next few days.

Additionally, my cousin had apparently contacted my aunt (several years ago) and had borrowed many thousands of pounds from her, telling my aunt that there were numerous repairs to be done around the house. My aunt, being frail and not in great health believed her and paid the money straight into my cousin's bank account. She hadn't been to my cousin's house for quite a few years due to ill-health. When my aunt today asked my cousin's friend if the work had been carried out, the friend shook her head and said "no". My cousin had apparently spent all the money on alcohol. My aunt just sat there in complete disbelief.

Despite this, my poor aunt is absolutely convinced that she will be inheriting the house, even though my cousin had stated to her many years ago that she had made a will and would leave the house to her friends (like-minded alcoholics, no doubt)! Whether that was true or not we don't know. My aunt also thinks that if my cousin hasn't made a will, she will inherit the house anyway as she is next of kin.

I'm just trying to pluck up the courage to tell my aunt about the conversations I had earlier today with my cousin's friend about the re-mortgaging and debt. I know my aunt will be really upset.

I don't know what to do. I'm worried sick now that if I start tampering with anything (sorting out post and contacting creditors etc) I'm somehow going to be held responsible for any debts, mortgages etc that she has. I don't know if the fact the coroner has my name is going to cause me any problems.

I can not even contemplate the task ahead, the amount of unopened letters is frightening. My thoughts are that when I tell my aunt about the reality of everything I should advise her to 'walk away' from the situation. What 'walking away' actually means I really don't know.

Also, if there is a will, which I can't ever see us finding in her house, how do we go about finding the solicitor who she made it with? She lives in a very large town where there are loads of solicitors.

Sorry about the length of this post, just wanted to include all the information. Thanks.

Yorkshireman99

Crowdedhouse wrote: »

My cousin died recently. She has been estranged from all the family on and off over the years. I hadn't seen her for at least 4 years, myself. She was a chronic alcoholic, lived alone, unemployed, single, no children. Her mother (my aunt) who is 88 is her next of kin.

My cousin is still in the hands of the coroner awaiting a post mortem. I'm dealing with the coroner, as my aunt doesn't want to deal with it.

I accompanied my aunt to my cousin's house today in the hopes of perhaps finding a will so we could go start thinking about her funeral. My cousin's friend was waiting outside the house with a set of keys as we had no way of getting in.

We went in and the house is an absolute tip. The first thing we saw was loads and loads of unopened post. At least several years' worth. A lot of the rooms we couldn't actually get into because they were so piled up with clothes and stuff. We gave up searching for the will, if indeed one exists at all, after a while because we just didn't know where to look. It was really hard to move around in there and I was worried my aunt might fall and hurt herself.

The house was bought and paid for by my aunt many years ago although it is in my cousin's name.

At this point, my cousin's friend stated to me, out of my aunt's earshot, "you do know she's remortgaged this house 6 or 7 times, don't you? She's up to her neck in debt." Well, that was the first I'd heard about it! I'm going to have to pluck up the courage to break this news to my aunt in the next few days.

Additionally, my cousin had apparently contacted my aunt (several years ago) and had borrowed many thousands of pounds from her, telling my aunt that there were numerous repairs to be done around the house. My aunt, being frail and not in great health believed her and paid the money straight into my cousin's bank account. She hadn't been to my cousin's house for quite a few years due to ill-health. When my aunt today asked my cousin's friend if the work had been carried out, the friend shook her head and said "no". My cousin had apparently spent all the money on alcohol. My aunt just sat there in complete disbelief.

Despite this, my poor aunt is absolutely convinced that she will be inheriting the house, even though my cousin had stated to her many years ago that she had made a will and would leave the house to her friends (like-minded alcoholics, no doubt)! Whether that was true or not we don't know. My aunt also thinks that if my cousin hasn't made a will, she will inherit the house anyway as she is next of kin.

I'm just trying to pluck up the courage to tell my aunt about the conversations I had earlier today with my cousin's friend about the re-mortgaging and debt. I know my aunt will be really upset.

I don't know what to do. I'm worried sick now that if I start tampering with anything (sorting out post and contacting creditors etc) I'm somehow going to be held responsible for any debts, mortgages etc that she has. I don't know if the fact the coroner has my name is going to cause me any problems.

I can not even contemplate the task ahead, the amount of unopened letters is frightening. My thoughts are that when I tell my aunt about the reality of everything I should advise her to 'walk away' from the situation. What 'walking away' actually means I really don't know.

Also, if there is a will, which I can't ever see us finding in her house, how do we go about finding the solicitor who she made it with? She lives in a very large town where there are loads of solicitors.

Sorry about the length of this post, just wanted to include all the information. Thanks.

The bottom line is that you have no legal obligation to deal with the problem and have no liability for the debts if any unless you start dealing with the estate. Check on the Land Registry site to see if there are any charges against the property. You can refer your aunt to this site to explain who inherits in the case of their being no valid will.

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

Also you are not responsible for any funeral costs unless you arrange the funeral. The local authority will organize and pay for the funeral if nobody else can.

getmore4less

You don't become liable for debts when dealing with an estate.

Walk away is just that you do nothing.

It is probably worth establishing if the estate is insolvent.

You can open post to try and find any lender and debt.
You can make enquiries.

Do not pay anything to anyone or collect any money.

You can remove stuff for save keeping and secure the property.

There is quite a lot you can do without intermeddling(look it up)

If the estate looks to be insolvent then any mortgage lender could be informed and let them sort it out.

If not insolvent then it could end up a lot of work for not much and may still be a walk away.

konark

Under the intestacy rules your aunt is next-of-kin and would inherit the house, or what's left of it!

I would question your cousin's friend's statement that the house had been remortgaged many times. It's hard enough for people in work to do this let alone an unemployed alcoholic- how on earth did they meet the borrowing criteria? Even if there has been a remortgage it won't be more than 80% of value, so there should be enough equity at least for a funeral.

My first mission would be to discover the extent of any mortgages on the property, I believe the Land Registry has a charges register on registered property which will show the name of the lender.

securityguy

"Even if there has been a remortgage it won't be more than 80% of value"

Although selling a house in the state that is described in unlikely to get a good price, and depending on where it is in the country, property values outside London are far from solid. A property re-mortgaged ten years ago and left to fall to pieces since could in some cases be lucky to get 50% of its 2006 valuation.

Keep_pedalling

I would take what your cousin's friend has said with a very large pinch of salt. Someone that disorganised and no income would find it difficult to remortgage the house, and the chances that she got round to doing a will are slim.

Before you do anything check the issue of house ownership. This is easy to do via the land registry. A search will cost £3 and will show up any charges placed on it by lenders.

silvercar

A search of the Land Registry will tell you who holds any charges.

It may not give you exact amounts, but will tell you who holds charges that have been properly registered.

Make sure you use the official site for £3 and not any other site that charges extra for the same service.

Official Land Registry link.

FreeBear

Crowdedhouse wrote: »

Also, if there is a will, which I can't ever see us finding in her house, how do we go about finding the solicitor who she made it with? She lives in a very large town where there are loads of solicitors.

Short of ringing all the solicitors in town, your best bet is an advert in the Gazette. This doesn't cover any DIY wills and may not find the ears of any will writing outfits (don't know if the Gazette gets circulated to them).

Yorkshireman99

konark wrote: »

Under the intestacy rules your aunt is next-of-kin and would inherit the house, or what's left of it!

I would question your cousin's friend's statement that the house had been remortgaged many times. It's hard enough for people in work to do this let alone an unemployed alcoholic- how on earth did they meet the borrowing criteria? Even if there has been a remortgage it won't be more than 80% of value, so there should be enough equity at least for a funeral.

My first mission would be to discover the extent of any mortgages on the property, I believe the Land Registry has a charges register on registered property which will show the name of the lender.

The OP has not given sufficient information to be sure. Next of kin has not legal meaning as far as inheritance is concerned. The OP needs to check the link already given.

TBagpuss

OK, in a worst-case scenario situation the estate may be insolvent and in that case, "intermeddling" with it could result in becoming personally liable if you get thongs wrong.

However, as others have said, I would be somewhat sceptical about the remortgage claims.

Gathering information information is unlikly to create any problems for you,

('Intermeddling' is defines if any person obtains, receives or holds any asset of a deceased person without receiving full consideration, or effects the release of any debt or liability due to the estate of the deceased then they become an 'executor of their own wrong' and will have intermeddled. - in other words, if you or your aunt distributing assets or possessions, pays debts etc you could have difficulties.

Opening the old post to try to work out what assets and debts your cousin had, taking necessary steps to preserve assets (such as arranging insurance for the house) or 'humane' acts (such as organising a funeral are not classed as 'intermeddling'.

The fact that the coroner has your name is not a problem - at most, it means they will keep you informed about the outcome of the enquiry.

If you (or your aunt) arrange the funeral then whichever of you signs the paperwork for the funeral home will be liable for the funeral costs. Those costs can be claimed back from the estate, and if your cousin had any money in the bank, the bank may be prepared to release this directly to the funeral company to cover the costs.

As a first step, I'd suggest looking at the old post to see whether there is anything that gives a better idea of the extent of the debt and assets, checking the LR listing to see what charges are registered against the property. You can advertise in the Law Society Gazette for a will - you could also ask your cousin's friend whether she is aware of her ever having made a will or spoken about any solicitor.

Alternatively, if you don't feel able to do this, you could advise your aunt to seek advice from her own solicitor.

sammy1234567

This sounds daunting. Maybe there are unscrupulous lenders that would lend money on the security of the house, but a proper bank wouldn't, not without checking your cousin's financial well-being.

My late mother's house was v messy, because she was unable to care for herself due to mental health problems. She was unable to throw anything away. In order to make the place habitable, I spent two weeks to systematically go through her flat and throw out old junk mail and clothes. Once I got going, it wasn't so bad. My partner helped me when he couldn, but mainly it was just me, cleaning and tidying. I suppose I felt morally obliged to help because she was my mum. Your situation is obviously different and you can choose to not get involved especially if the estate has only debts and no assets.

I suppose if you wanted to go and look for the will, maybe you would find that the task is not so big, once you get going with throwing a lot of junk out. Get a friend to help? Wear some rubber gloves, and take lots of bin bags...

This is of course, only if you decide you want to get involved.