Transporting a SORN car with no MOT

Silver-Surfer_2

Joe_Horner wrote: »

I don't think it's not roadworthy - hence the comment in point (4) of my first post about lack of MOT may or may not make it unroadworthy

The other is a tricky one because yes, according to the section he has committed the offence the moment he exposes it for sale but he has a defence if he reasonably believes that someone buying it will trailer it away, which would be a reasonable expectation at the point you advertise it.

I'd suggest that the aim behind that part of the definitions is to prevent traders from advertising unroadworthy cars because they can't use the defence unless they've taken all reasonable steps to make sure the buyer knows they mustn't drive it (so advertised clearly as "cannot be driven away" and refusing to sell if a buyer then turns up with no means of recovery)

Yet you feel the need to mention it twice.

If he adds to the reciept sold as seen no mot to be trailed away, times and dates it and gets the seller to sign it there's no comeback on him.

It will be down to the buyer if he's stopped driving home and the police will probably just seize it as I doubt he'll be insuring it either.

Joe_Horner

Silver-Surfer wrote: »

Yet you feel the need to mention it twice.

If he adds to the reciept sold as seen no mot to be trailed away, times and dates it and gets the seller to sign it there's no comeback on him.

It will be down to the buyer if he's stopped driving home and the police will probably just seize it as I doubt he'll be insuring it either.

But, assuming this car with no MOT isn't in a state where it would pass an MOT (quite likely or he wouldn't be talking about scrap value) then:

He commits an offence at the moment of sale if he doesn't have a reasonable belief that it won't be driven regardless of what happens after that..

A receipt saying "No MOT, to be trailered away", or anything similar, does not protect him against that if he knows, or thinks, that it's going to be driven.

So, having posted the correct situation the first time, I repeated it briefly to explain why advice to issue a receipt is potentially bad advice because such a receipt would absolutely not protect him from a charge under S.75 of the RTA.

The only things that would protect against an offence under that section are:

(1) reasonably believing that the guy who's just turned up will be trailering it away (hard to justify if he doesn't have a trailer or tow car with him), or:

(2) refusing to go through with the sale if it appears the buyer intends to drive it away.

That's not to say that anything would happen - given the number of uninsured / un-MOT'd cars out there it's a fair bet nothing would. But the Op asked what liability he might expose himself to and saying "none if you do a receipt" is just plain wrong!

EdGasket

EssexExile wrote: »

There are thousands of people driving untaxed uninsured cars out there. They'd be very unlucky getting caught on the way home.

Maybe but those 'thousands' are probably not properly registered to anyone or have false plates; a totally different scenario to the one here. ANPR cameras are all over and will pick up untaxed cars easily. Whether the owner is traceable is a different matter.

arcon5

You can drive a car with no tax and MOT to a pre-booked MOT.

Sell them the car, sort receipts out showing date and time and be done with it. I wouldn't bother concerning myself with what they do with it.

I've driven no end of cars away from private premises (granted often they'll be taken to an MOT station, but not always) and never had anybody question me about it. If I turned up at your door to buy it and you refused then i'd be expecting you to cover my travel costs.

Hermione_Granger

Joe_Horner wrote: »

But, assuming this car with no MOT isn't in a state where it would pass an MOT (quite likely or he wouldn't be talking about scrap value) then:

He commits an offence at the moment of sale if he doesn't have a reasonable belief that it won't be driven regardless of what happens after that..

Just because a vehicle isn't in a fit state to pass an MOT doesn't automatically mean that it is unroadworthy, in which case no offence would be committed by selling it in the knowledge that the buyer will be driving it away.


If lack of an MOT always made a vehicle unroadworthy, why are you legally allowed to drive to a garage to get the MOT carried out or to a garage to get repairs carried out following an MOT failure (provided that you have pre-booked appointments)?

silverwhistle

swanny_1 wrote: »

someone has offered to pay peanuts for (but better than scrap value).

How much more than scrap value? Given what you've been told it really doesn't seem worth it, does it? Someone who is still prepared to drive it when they've been told it's not driveable...

arcon5 wrote:

If I turned up at your door to buy it and you refused then i'd be expecting you to cover my travel costs.

If you'd been told the situation I would tell you, nicely, to lump it.

Joe_Horner

Hermione_Granger wrote: »

Just because a vehicle isn't in a fit state to pass an MOT doesn't automatically mean that it is unroadworthy, in which case no offence would be committed by selling it in the knowledge that the buyer will be driving it away.


If lack of an MOT always made a vehicle unroadworthy, why are you legally allowed to drive to a garage to get the MOT carried out or to a garage to get repairs carried out following an MOT failure (provided that you have pre-booked appointments)?

Agreed, and covered by point (4) of post #5 above.

But the offence is strict liability - it doesn't matter whether or not you know the car is unroadworthy - and there's only a single statutory defence to it, which is that you reasonably believed thr buyer wasn't going to drive it on the road.

So, when the OP asks what the implications for him are, the correct response is NOT "give a receipt with the time on and it's nothing to do with you".

The CORRECT response is that he's likely to be committing an offence by going through with the sale. Whether or not he should worry about that is for him to decide.

s_b

I would only sell like this on a trade to trade basis
if these people cant or wont pay for legitimate transportation what other shortcuts are they taking like giving false details

Richard53

EssexExile wrote: »

There are thousands of people driving untaxed uninsured cars out there. They'd be very unlucky getting caught on the way home.

I picked up a new (to me) car last week. It had been SORN and uninsured since last November. Before I even got home I was pulled over. I had passed a parked police car and the APNR had flagged the car as not insured. I had the insurance certificate on me and so there wasn't a problem, but I was quite impressed with how quickly it was picked up. For those of us who bother to tax and insure our cars, it's quite reassuring.

Silver-Surfer_2

s_b wrote: »

I would only sell like this on a trade to trade basis
if these people cant or wont pay for legitimate transportation what other shortcuts are they taking like giving false details

Why should false details be a concern if his cash is good?