Transporting a SORN car with no MOT

swanny_1

I have an old car for sale which someone has offered to pay peanuts for (but better than scrap value). They know it has no MOT or tax but want to drive the car away. I have told then they should have it towed or trailered but they still want to drive it. What implications does this have on me? Presumably if they are in possession of the new keeper slip then it's their call and therefore not my problem if they are pulled over? They are also asking for a postcode now before picking up on the 2nd March (they are paying cash on collection). I'm assuming it would be wiser to wait to give it to them until the day of collection?

Quentin

You have no concerns over what the owner does/laws they break etc. (Unless you feel your responsibilities as a citizen stretch to reporting your customer as he drives off in his new car)


When you complete the paperwork put the time of the transaction down and get the purchaser to sign their agreement. (Just in case they pass through any speed traps after taking possession!)


Makes no difference what day you give them the address for collection - you got to let them know where it is sometime before they are supposed to collect it!

EdGasket

They will get caught by ANPR cameras if it travels any distance for no tax/using a SORN car on the road and you will get sent the penalty as the registered owner. Of course you can explain it was sold etc. etc. but bear in mind it is another thing to sort out.

If it were me I would insist it were trailer'd away or just scrap it through an authorised scrapper. For peanuts it's just not worth the hassle of dealing with the 'pond life' who want to drive illegally.

EssexExile

EdGasket wrote: »

They will get caught by ANPR cameras if it travels any distance for no tax/using a SORN car on the road

There are thousands of people driving untaxed uninsured cars out there. They'd be very unlucky getting caught on the way home.

Joe_Horner

If you sell it in an unroadworthy condition you commit an offence inder the Road Traffic Act 1988, S.75 unless you have "reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle or trailer would not be used on a road in Great Britain, or would not be so used until it had been put into a condition in which it might lawfully be so used"

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

Things to note here:

(1) The offence is committed by the act of selling it, not by letting him drive away, so has nothing to do with whose car it is when it's actually driven.

(2) The offence is assumed the moment you sell any unroadworthy car, but you have a defence if you had reason to think it wasn't going to be used on the road in the UK.

(3) That is the only defence available and you wouldn't be able to use it in this case because he's made it clear he intends to drive it away. Even if he hadn't told you that, if he turned up to buy it without a trailer (so pretty obviously planning to drive it) you would commit the offence if you allowed the sale to go ahead.

(4) "Unroadworthy" in relation to this section of the RTA doesn't mean "with / without an MOT". It specifically mean if it has faults with the brakes, steering, tyres, construction, weights or equipment". So, in respect of this offence, a car without MOT might be legally roadworthy, while one with an MOT could very well be legally unroadworthy.

(5) None of the above means that bad things would happen in practice, but they might. Say, for instance, he pulled away, got 100 yards down the road and ploughed into those ubiquitous nuns with their kittens because one of the threadbare tyres exploded - the authorities might at that point decide that you should share the responsibility....

marlot

swanny_1 wrote: »

...They know it has no MOT or tax but want to drive the car away....

I would refuse.

Ectophile

I would just add - if the car's still insured, make sure the insurance is cancelled as soon as the car is sold.

Marvel1

Write a receipt for you both and you both sign it, stating the date and time the vehicle was handed over.

Joe_Horner

cjdavies wrote: »

Write a receipt for you both and you both sign it, stating the date and time the vehicle was handed over.

From the point of view of "selling an unroadworthy vehicle" that makes no difference at all. the only thing that avoids that offence is genuinely (and reasonably) believing that it won't be driven.

If he doesn't turn up with a trailer, you can't reasonably believe he's going to do anything but drive it away so going ahead with the sale commits an offence in itself regardless of what happens afterwards.

Silver-Surfer_2

Joe_Horner wrote: »

From the point of view of "selling an unroadworthy vehicle" that makes no difference at all. the only thing that avoids that offence is genuinely (and reasonably) believing that it won't be driven.

If he doesn't turn up with a trailer, you can't reasonably believe he's going to do anything but drive it away so going ahead with the sale commits an offence in itself regardless of what happens afterwards.

Couple of points.

What makes you think it's not road worthy?

Has he not already contend tge offence by exposing it for sale?

Joe_Horner

Silver-Surfer wrote: »

Couple of points.

What makes you think it's not road worthy?

Has he not already contend tge offence by exposing it for sale?

I don't think it's not roadworthy - hence the comment in point (4) of my first post about lack of MOT may or may not make it unroadworthy

The other is a tricky one because yes, according to the section he has committed the offence the moment he exposes it for sale but he has a defence if he reasonably believes that someone buying it will trailer it away, which would be a reasonable expectation at the point you advertise it.

I'd suggest that the aim behind that part of the definitions is to prevent traders from advertising unroadworthy cars because they can't use the defence unless they've taken all reasonable steps to make sure the buyer knows they mustn't drive it (so advertised clearly as "cannot be driven away" and refusing to sell if a buyer then turns up with no means of recovery)