Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust offering cash inducements to opt out of pension

GunJack

I just can't believe that some on here think this is a good thing, especially when they spend so much time being jealous of Civil Service/local govt/TPS/NHS/etc. DB pension schemes!!!! OK, so most of those schemes aren't quite as good as they used to be, but they're still some of the best available, why on earth would you discourage anyone from joining them??????????

PensionTech

I just can't believe that some on here think this is a good thing, especially when they spend so much time being jealous of Civil Service/local govt/TPS/NHS/etc. DB pension schemes!!!! OK, so most of those schemes aren't quite as good as they used to be, but they're still some of the best available, why on earth would you discourage anyone from joining them??????????

Ok, so put it in these terms:

Mary wants to be a nurse. She has a choice of a £30,000 job with the NHS and accompanying pension scheme, or a £33,000 job with an agency and no pension scheme. Mary decides she wants the higher salary and doesn't care about the pension so works for the agency. Mary does not get a pension through the agency. The NHS also pays more than £33,000 for hiring her through the agency.

The NHS wants Mary to work for them directly so that it can save some money, but she apparently doesn't care about the valuable pension and is only concerned about the salary difference between the two options. So the NHS gives Mary a free, open, and fully reversible choice: she can have the £30,000 and the pension, or she can have the same salary that she would get via the agency, but with no pension.

Is that the NHS trying to discourage someone from joining the pension scheme? Or is it the NHS trying to find a way to recruit someone who doesn't care about the value of the pension and would never otherwise work for them, as evidenced by her preference to work for an agency?

This is of course a gross oversimplification of the situation, and assumes that salary is the only reason nurses do agency work and that the NHS has no other options for recruiting nurses - neither of which is true. But there are two sides to this story - "The NHS wants to discourage people from joining the pension scheme" is an even more gross simplification than this.

GunJack

possible easy solution - ban the use of agency staff in the nhs?

...and later in life, do people not realise they could suffer bigger financial hardship if they go p1$$ing their pension contributions up against the wall in whatever way they choose?

To me (as a former Civil Servant) this all has a very bad smell about it.....

jamesd

GunJack wrote: »

I just can't believe that some on here think this is a good thing, especially when they spend so much time being jealous of Civil Service/local govt/TPS/NHS/etc. DB pension schemes!!!! ... they're still some of the best available, why on earth would you discourage anyone from joining them??????????

They are some of the best available but individual situations can still make it a better idea not to be enrolled for a while. That can even include cases where none of the money deducted from the pay in the employment contract package is made available after opting out.

Debts, home buying and avoiding imprisonment by paying fines are some of the situations where for a while it can be best to accept the loss of pension benefit increase to get better long term improvement in the person's situation.

Naturally these things will not apply to most people or to people at all stages of life but where they do apply the potential benefits are real.

kidmugsy

GunJack wrote: »

possible easy solution - ban the use of agency staff in the nhs?

Easy but foolish: I suppose it would appeal to a former civil servant.

GunJack

kidmugsy wrote: »

Easy but foolish: I suppose it would appeal to a former civil servant.

..and what's that supposed to mean? Surely there's a better way of doing it than 1. paying massive agency fees and 2. not giving staff pensions??

One thing that drove me mad when I was in the CS was the "get consultants in, they know best" attitude at the top, when the existing staff could and wanted to do things better without the millions spent on consultants. Public Sector doesn't have to mean inefficient....are you seriously saying handling a floating internal staff pool is more expensive than agencies? IME, I doubt it...

kidmugsy

It's supposed to mean that it's no wonder that when I was a boy civil servants were often referred to as "little 'itlers": their propensity to try to solve problems by banning things was notorious.

woolly_wombat

http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/news/nhs-trust-trust-drops-controversial-pension-offer/a897553

"The Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust has scrapped a salary scheme which offered nurses a higher salary in return for opting out of an NHS pension scheme.

Last month, the Trust was referred to the Pension Regulator (TPR) by the NHS Pensions Board after concerns were raised by the Financial Times that it was offering nurses an incentive to drop out of the pension scheme in return for higher salary pay.

Under auto-enrolment rules employers are not allowed to offer staff higher pay as an inducement to opt-out of an auto-enrolment scheme.

TPR originally approved the scheme, but was forced to look at it again when the NHS Pensions Board referred the offer.

Now the Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust has said it is going to scrap the pension-salary deal."

fastestlouigie

That's great news. Anything that might persuade someone to opt out of the Nhs pension scheme is bad news. Some might see it as a restriction of choice but this is something that people shouldn't have to decide upon-the Trust was attempting to save a bucket load of money and this has not gone unnoticed.