Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust offering cash inducements to opt out of pension

Thrugelmir

atush wrote: »

I personally think the picking and choosing/part time is a big thing here.

The NHS could be more flexible, or even have an agency themselves where THEY can give flex shift to those who want to work that way. And then keep good staff, take less agency nurses, and save money?

The issue for hospitals is that there are mandatory staffing levels. On occasions it's simply not possible to rosta enough staff. So resorting to agency is the only option. Paying an individual over a £1k for a single overnight weekend shift in the past wasn't uncommon.

The NHS are flexible. Those with children want part time hours when they return. Often days and hours to suit themselves. Which itself places a huge administrative burden on senior staff who have better things to do with their time.

Andy_L

atush wrote: »

I personally think the picking and choosing/part time is a big thing here.

The NHS could be more flexible, or even have an agency themselves where THEY can give flex shift to those who want to work that way. And then keep good staff, take less agency nurses, and save money?

Tha'ts effectively what Nurse Bank is. Unfortunately (for the NHS) agency work pays more

jamesd

woolly_wombat wrote: »

We have created a new pay offering, which is open to all band 5 nurses at Oxleas and will allow the choice of taking either the standard NHS pay scheme, or one that has an enhanced rate of pay, which when combined with additional pay for unsocial hours, will equal the pay offered by many agencies....

A worrying development. ... Is this really legal?

It's not a worrying development. It offers the nurses who want to do it the opportunity to get into the same position as if they were private sector workers.

In the private sector you get higher pay and can choose to use it for pensions if you want to. In the public sector schemes you can't get the extra pay, it has to go into the pension whether you want it to or not. This gives nurses the choice. It would be good to see all public sector schemes introducing options like this.

For a new nurse at typical ages it's entirely possible that their best option long term might be not to pay into the pension for a small number of years but instead to more rapidly buy their own home. Similarly for those with debt troubles it could be the better, cheaper, option.

Of course as with the private sector some nurses might not think of the future and might use this in a short-sighted way, as some in the private sector do.

fastestlouigie

I would echo your last concern, that nurses may be enticed by the increased pay in their pockets at the detriment of their long-term financial planning. There is no way that me and most of my colleagues starting out 25 years ago would have gone down the pension route if given a straight choice, with no advice around the options on the table. I am so relieved that my future financial situation is secure due to this automatic enrolling all those years ago. Maybe if a compulsory session with an IFA as part of new recruits' induction was introduced, this may be some sort of safeguard that people are making an informed choice?

woolly_wombat

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The issue for hospitals is that there are mandatory staffing levels. On occasions it's simply not possible to rosta enough staff. So resorting to agency is the only option. Paying an individual over a £1k for a single overnight weekend shift in the past wasn't uncommon.

The NHS are flexible. Those with children want part time hours when they return. Often days and hours to suit themselves. Which itself places a huge administrative burden on senior staff who have better things to do with their time.

A friend of mine took early retirement after working part-time for many many years as an NHS scientist.

She did her fair share of on-call and weekend shifts but told me how much she resented being paid less for out-of-hours duties than those full-timers she worked alongside after Agenda for Change was introduced.

Thus the NHS lost a very experienced employee due to changes which were, or should have been, entirely predictable.

If the NHS doesn't want to be bothered with part-timers then a very expensive bullet will have to be bitten - the budget and number of training places will have to be massively expanded.

The 'on the cheap' option of employing more poorly trained assistants doesn't seem to have worked out too well!

woolly_wombat

fastestlouigie wrote: »

I would echo your last concern, that nurses may be enticed by the increased pay in their pockets at the detriment of their long-term financial planning. There is no way that me and most of my colleagues starting out 25 years ago would have gone down the pension route if given a straight choice, with no advice around the options on the table. I am so relieved that my future financial situation is secure due to this automatic enrolling all those years ago.

Spot on fastestlouigie, spot on.

You have very neatly summed up my concerns and, indeed, my reason for raising this whole oxleas pension opt-out topic.

It just goes against the whole raison d'être of pension auto-enrolment.

Manxman_in_exile

I joined the NHS in the late 80s as a temporary Superannuation Clerk with an Area Health Authority. It was around the time that membership of the NHS pension scheme became voluntary (because of the introduction of private pensions etc?) and it seemed fairly clear to me that the supposed "benefits" of opting out of the NHS scheme (ie "choice" and lower deductions from pay) were pushed quite hard at staff - particularly new ones.
I stayed in the NHS for another 25 years and I never met anyone who had opted out of the NHS scheme who didn't regret it.
It's all very well to talk about having the freedom to choose whether or not to contribute into a pension scheme, but "choice" only works if you have the opportunity to learn from mistakes. I can choose whether to shop at Tesco's or Waitrose and that's good because it's something I do regularly and I can choose what suits me best based on past experience.
Choosing whether or not to join a pension scheme is not so straightforward. By the time you've acquired enough information and experience to exercise a properly informed choice, it's probably too late to rectify any mistakes.


I find it ironic that in my working life I've seen governments try to persuade people to opt out of occupational schemes, then introduce compulsory workplace pensions, and now the NHS (again!) is trying to get staff to opt out of the NHS scheme.

jamesd

woolly_wombat wrote: »

It just goes against the whole raison d'être of pension auto-enrolment.

More the opposite. The point of auto-enrolment is to get people enrolled by default but allow them to opt out if appropriate, without financial inducements that would cause them to wrongly pick one option or the other.

The previous situation in this and most public sector schemes is that the employees are paid to join the pension scheme by having their pay cut automatically for contributions but not having an option to get it back by opting out.

What this does is say that they get the money anyway and can choose which option is best for them, with the usual auto-enrolment rules applying to get them enrolled unless they make an explicit decision to opt out.

Teaandscones

It may be an important tool to retain some senior nurses in the NHS if the chancellor reduces the LTA again in the budget.

woolly_wombat

Teaandscones wrote: »

It may be an important tool to retain some senior nurses in the NHS if the chancellor reduces the LTA again in the budget.

Interesting point, but at the moment it's only being offered to entry-level staff.