Nationwide's proof of tenancy income

bambos

We have two properties both of which are tenanted and we run one with a silent partner running the other (we have no input or say/contact with the silent partner; it's complicated) we have an existing mortgage with Halifax but have been offered a much better deal with Nationwide however, they want to see proof of income for the silent partners property in the form of a bank statement, we are very unlikely to be able to obtain this so have asked if a tenancy agreement (which we have for the property as we went and asked the tenant for it) and a copy of the annual mortgage statement. The mortgage advisor has said she will go and ask the underwriter but I wondered if anyone knew what the chances were of this being acceptable?

OnTheRun

bambos wrote: »

We have two properties both of which are tenanted and we run one with a silent partner running the other (we have no input or say/contact with the silent partner; it's complicated) we have an existing mortgage with Halifax but have been offered a much better deal with Nationwide however, they want to see proof of income for the silent partners property in the form of a bank statement, we are very unlikely to be able to obtain this so have asked if a tenancy agreement (which we have for the property as we went and asked the tenant for it) and a copy of the annual mortgage statement. The mortgage advisor has said she will go and ask the underwriter but I wondered if anyone knew what the chances were of this being acceptable?

This seems strange.

Presumably these are BTL mortgages through The Mortgage Works?

They will want proof of identity of the applicants, so that's usually a photo ID (e.g. passport) and a proof of address (Utility Bill). Or for £5 they can try to identify you via online records.

Normally there is no requirement for proof of income for their BTL products. All that is required is that rental income is 125% (typically) of stress level (typically 5% p.a interest)

However, where exceptionally proof of income is required, this is typically in the form of SA302 (for self employed/self assessed) or wage slip (for employed)

Rental income is as per valuers report normally.

Are you trying to argue that actual current rental income exceeds the valuer's estimated rental income? Are you trying to borrow so much that the valuer's estimate is not sufficient?
In which case, and assuming they are entertaining the dispute, they will want to see proof of actual receipts I guess, hence the request for bank statements.
The current mortgage statement won't prove rental income. They might accept the TA as that would indicate a contractual requirement, but does not prove actual receipt of the amounts specified.

bambos

Thankyou for your reply. I haven't been very clear with my post sorry, the two rental properties are let and mortgaged by my husband and the silent partner. My husband and I are remortgaging our family home which we own together but the mortgage company have asked for proof of our income from our BTL property which is fine but in addition they want proof for the other BTL which is near impossible to get.

AnotherJoe

Your sig says "debt free" but you have two mortgages ??? What do you think a mortgage is ?

Also, a silent partner is the exact opposite of what you think it is. A silent partner would have just given you the money and you'd be doing all the work. You are the silent partner!

Your post is far too mysterious and confusing. If you have no say or influence or any payments from the second property, why would anyone care what they were and why do you think they would be taken into account ?

Do you get the rental or some of it from the second property?

bambos

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Your sig says "debt free" but you have two mortgages ??? What do you think a mortgage is ?

Also, a silent partner is the exact opposite of what you think it is. A silent partner would have just given you the money and you'd be doing all the work. You are the silent partner!

Your post is far too mysterious and confusing. If you have no say or influence or any payments from the second property, why would anyone care what they were and why do you think they would be taken into account ?

Do you get the rental or some of it from the second property?

Yes true a mortgage is debt but we cleared £12k of unsecured debt in a year and I don't class my mortgage as a debt as we have a house abroad which we own outright and if sold would clear our family home mortgage but it's a neat income for us at the moment so given that fact I won't be debt free for another 14 years.

The two rental properties are both of the same value and one is managed by us and one by my husbands ex wife (it's a mutual agreement in which no communication is passed) she receives the income from hers and pays the mortgage, manages any upkeep etc and we do the same with the other.

Nationwides issue arises as my husband is legally on the mortgage and they said they see it as an outgoing even though we have no input whatsoever.

Thrugelmir

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Your sig says "debt free" but you have two mortgages ??? What do you think a mortgage is ?

I'd say three mortgages. 2 BTL and 1 residential. Sounds more like an ex partner than a silent partner.

Best to provide what is asked for. Failure to do so simply raises more questions than answers.

bambos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I'd say three mortgages. 2 BTL and 1 residential. Sounds more like an ex partner than a silent partner.

Best to provide what is asked for. Failure to do so simply raises more questions than answers.

Agreed, easier to refer to as silent but essentially the key letter here is X.

I just hoped they might accept the tenancy and annual mortgage statement, it's easier to let sleeping dogs lie as one might say.

AnotherJoe

So, I see Nationwides concern now. If the exwife decides to stop paying the mortgage, your partner is liable. And there's no record even that the tenants pay or what they pay. You might be able to get the tentants to declare what they pay, maybe that will satisfy NW but seems to me you'd be getting off lightly if they accept that, because they are, I assume paying it to exwife so into wouldn't be available to your husband without a legal case, should exwife not wish to pay the mortgage.

Seems like it would be better to cut the ties on the two properties.own one each. Settle any financial differences between the two if necessary. Forestall any future issues let alone the current one.

In the meantime ask them if a witnessed statement from tenants would suffice?

bambos

AnotherJoe wrote: »

So, I see Nationwides concern now. If the exwife decides to stop paying the mortgage, your partner is liable. And there's no record even that the tenants pay or what they pay. You might be able to get the tentants to declare what they pay, maybe that will satisfy NW but seems to me you'd be getting off lightly if they accept that, because they are, I assume paying it to exwife so into wouldn't be available to your husband without a legal case, should exwife not wish to pay the mortgage.

Seems like it would be better to cut the ties on the two properties.own one each. Settle any financial differences between the two if necessary. Forestall any future issues let alone the current one.

In the meantime ask them if a witnessed statement from tenants would suffice?

That's great thanks anotherjoe, I will contact the advisor on Monday and ask if a witnessed statement would suffice.

Essentially we need to sell up as it does become a hindrance in these situations but paradoxically suits us all with the income and they way it's managed.

Time to take the bull by the horns me thinks

Thanks for your advice.

OnTheRun

bambos wrote: »

Thankyou for your reply. I haven't been very clear with my post sorry, the two rental properties are let and mortgaged by my husband and the silent partner. My husband and I are remortgaging our family home which we own together but the mortgage company have asked for proof of our income from our BTL property which is fine but in addition they want proof for the other BTL which is near impossible to get.

Ah, I see.

So there are 2 BTL properties owned by your husband and a.n.other ... and your residential home owned by your husband and you.

You want to remortgage your residential property - presumably to release some more equity and/or using another lender.

The lender will want proof of you and your husbands income.
They will want proof of the rental income either beacuse you are relying in part on that to make up the multiple that you can borrow ... or maybe they just want to see it for affordability purposes. They can see what it is costing for the rental properties and they want to ensure the rental income adequately covers that (or if you have to subsidise it, then that will reduce the amount you could borrow)

So that explains the mortgage statement - that will show what it currently is costing.
As for income, then presumably you you both submit self assessments? Your husband for his interest in the UK BTL properties, and if I understand you correctly, you & your husband own a property abroad outright that you also let out.
I would have thought SA302s would demonstrate your individual incomes that would suffice. This should show seperately income from property.

bambos

OnTheRun wrote: »

Ah, I see.

So there are 2 BTL properties owned by your husband and a.n.other ... and your residential home owned by your husband and you. Correct

You want to remortgage your residential property - presumably to release some more equity and/or using another lender.yes, we can get a better rate and we want to fix

The lender will want proof of you and your husbands income.they do and we have that all prepared
They will want proof of the rental income either beacuse you are relying in part on that to make up the multiple that you can borrow ... or maybe they just want to see it for affordability purposes. They are seeing the second buy to let as an expense and want proof of its rental incomeThey can see what it is costing for the rental properties and they want to ensure the rental income adequately covers that (or if you have to subsidise it, then that will reduce the amount you could borrow) without proof from the ex wife's buy to let they won't lend us what we need

So that explains the mortgage statement - that will show what it currently is costing. I have asked Nationwide if a mortgage statement would suffice as they have asked for the ex wife's bank statement
As for income, then presumably you you both submit self assessments? YesYour husband for his interest in the UK BTL properties, and if I understand you correctly, you & your husband own a property abroad outright that you also let out.correct
I would have thought SA302s would demonstrate your individual incomes that would suffice. This should show seperately income from property.

true but asking the ex wife for any paperwork would be very tricky