Red Route Fine- TfL

Rave

Hi all, hope somebody can give me a bit of advice.

My mum has gone away for a three month trip abroad, so I've borrowed her car for the duration. I came round to her house today for a barbecue with my brothers and found a penalty notice from TfL for stopping on a red route. At the time of the alleged offence, my mum was still in the country but in Scotland and my brother was away, so I'm the only one who could have been driving at the time.

There are several things that are very annoying about this. The date of the alleged offence was the 17th July, and yet the notice was not issued until the 20th August. Obviously it's pretty hard to stretch my memory back that far, but the only thing I can think it could possibly be is that I once stopped for literally less than five seconds in Catford so a friend of mine could hop into the car from where he was waiting for me on the kerb. Naturally, no pictorial evidence was included with the penalty notice.

I'm pretty sure that for a speeding offence (say if you're flashed with a speed camera), a Notice of Intended Prosecution must be served within 14 days. Does any similar provision exist when you're allegedly caught by a CCTV camera breaking the red route rules? I was also under the impression that the fine would be halved if paid within 14 days- certainly that was the case about 3 months ago when I was caught by a traffic warden (again I had inconvenienced nobody, but I had broken the rules). There's no indication of that in this latest letter- they want £120 upfront, thankyouverymuch.

The final problem is that my Mum is away somewhere in the Middle East or Africa, and the car is registered in her name; hence the penalty notice is addressed to her. I'm not sure whether this might make appealing difficult or impossible (I can just about contact her, but she's not going to be able to write any letters or anything).

Any help would be appreciated. I really object to being stung for £120 for a 'crime' that inconvenienced nobody at all, if that's even what it was. The red route is a bus lane, and I made damn sure that there were no buses in the vicinity, since I'm a bus driver myself and I know how annoying it is.

Conor_3

RED ROUTES ARE NO STOPPING ROUTES. That's no stopping at all - even to let someone get in the car. The only times you can stop on a red route is for an emergency and if directed by a law enforcement officer.

It is a black and white offence - there's no shades of grey. So you're guilty for a start as you've even admitted.

There's no such time limit for parking offences and there's no requirement that they halve the fine if you pay within 14 days - that's up to the authority to decide to offer.

You claim to be a bus driver so as a vocational licence holder you clearly know better than most that you're not allowed to stop regardless of whether it inconveniences anyone or not.

If you decide to ignore it as it's not addressed to you then what happens depends on how long your mum is out of the country. If it's too long then it can escalate and get more serious.

Just pay up and take the fine like a man. You've done wrong and you know you did.

nealallen

Sorry I have no advice to give you, can only agree wth what Conor has said. I'm also a Bus driver and know too well you 'can't' stop on a red route.

Rave

Conor wrote: »

Just pay up and take the fine like a man. You've done wrong and you know you did.

On the contrary, I do not think I have done anything wrong. If nobody has been inconvenienced- which they certainly have not- then as far as I'm concerned there has been no wrongdoing. Going through CCTV footage a month after the event with a view to fining every motorist who has been filmed stopping on a red route for 5 seconds is not helping to improve traffic flow, it's a cynical money making exercise.

Thank you for your information though. I guess I'll just have to cough up.

TfL will certainly be losing money as a result of this whole sorry episode. Up until now- totally against the advice of my employer and my union- I have always challeneged people who get on the bus without a valid ticket- I have even been assaulted for my trouble. I generally take an average of £4 a day from people who reluctantly pay when I challenge them. Well, no longer.

anewman

Assuming your mother is the main driver on the insurance (you usually cannot get insurance in your own name if you do not own the car), but you are in fact using the car, to for example go to work or a place of study, I would recommend getting the car in your name so it can be driven under your own insurance policy to be fully legal. Policy fronting (being a named driver when in fact you use the car as your main car) can get you into trouble with the insurance companies if an accident happens, and effectively means you are uninsured.

And if you think you have not done anything wrong, look at the highway code. If a sign says no stopping - red route, it's best to find somewhere else to stop. It could be compared to driving the wrong way down a one way street, going through a red light, or parking in a disabled spot. There might not be anyone coming the other way, there might be no pedestrians or traffic coming the other way, and there might be 20 empty disabled spots so there's no inconvenience to anyone at all, but they're still all wrong. I would have thought you'd know better about stopping there if you work for TFL.

Hapless_2

The red route is a bus lane, and I made damn sure that there were no buses in the vicinity, since I'm a bus driver myself and I know how annoying it is.

Red route and stopping/driving in a bus lane???
As a bus driver, surely you should know better!

You want advice? Pay the fine, being a bus driver you'd be the first to moan if it was anyone else. ( I know, OH was one!)

daleyd

I have no advice other than don't take the tone of some posters too seriously, they obviously have never done anything wrong.

Hope someone is able to give you some constructive advice, if not then it looks like your stuck with coughing up.

Conor_3

Rave wrote: »

On the contrary, I do not think I have done anything wrong.

Apart from stopping on a route clearly marked as no stopping with signs every few hundred yards telling you that and with the definition of red routes clearly defined in the Highway Code?

Must be one hell of a poor bus driver.

Conor_3

daleyd wrote: »

I have no advice other than don't take the tone of some posters too seriously, they obviously have never done anything wrong.

Hope someone is able to give you some constructive advice, if not then it looks like your stuck with coughing up.

OK, here's some constructive advice.

The offence is a clear cut one.

HOWEVER, the fine was issued in the owners name, not his. So all he has to do is ignore the fine - after all it's not in his name. The owner will then have to name the driver and the fine will then be posted to the person named. So he'll get a few months grace.

HOWEVER, his mum may have a court summons by then as she's away for a few months so can't respond within the set 28 day period, which the authorities will treat as the person issued exercising their right to go to court.

But hey, at least our dumb OP will get a few months leeway or even manage to let his mum take the flack for his poor driving.

daleyd

Conor wrote: »

OK, here's some constructive advice.

The offence is a clear cut one.

HOWEVER, the fine was issued in the owners name, not his. So all he has to do is ignore the fine - after all it's not in his name. The owner will then have to name the driver and the fine will then be posted to the person named. So he'll get a few months grace.

HOWEVER, his mum may have a court summons by then as she's away for a few months so can't respond within the set 28 day period, which the authorities will treat as the person issued exercising their right to go to court.

But hey, at least our dumb OP will get a few months leeway or even manage to let his mum take the flack for his poor driving.

I only have 1 thing to say and it's cut and pasted from the top right hand side of the page.

Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps.

Have a nice day.

Rave

Hapless wrote: »

Red route and stopping/driving in a bus lane???
As a bus driver, surely you should know better!

You want advice? Pay the fine, being a bus driver you'd be the first to moan if it was anyone else. ( I know, OH was one!)

What part of "there were no buses in the vicinity" is so hard to understand?

Conor wrote:

But hey, at least our dumb OP will get a few months leeway or even manage to let his mum take the flack for his poor driving.

Despite your rudeness I'm not going to bother arguing with you, since clearly you're a person who believes in enforcing the rules just because they are the rules, even if there's no appreciable benefit in doing so. I believe that laws and rules should be enforced using common sense. Clearly we are not going to see eye to eye on this matter.