UKPC Parking Fine - Query re: appeal please?

Rich1234a

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can offer me any advice please?

I have read the FAQ, but wanted to clarify something.

I went out with my friend the other night, she was unwell whilst we were out, so I took her home, parked outside her flat and took her in and made sure she was okay, etc.

I came out after 30 mins and had a ticket on my screen from UKPC. Reason for fine "not displaying relevant permit".

My friend does have a 'visitors permit', but I didn't have time to put this on my car. Should I put all of this information in the online appeal? Many thanks in advance,

Rich

Redx

no , just use the BPA template as is , on day 25 or 26 , so in just over 3 weeks time

same as this one https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5413393

Rich1234a

Many thanks for your reply.

There seem to be two appeal letters on the site, which one should I use? (They are member of BPA)

1)

Template appeal for BPA members - copy this wording into the online appeal box or into an email:




Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the terms unclear to drivers before they park. Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

---

Or 2) Step 1 appeals Word.doc

[insert your name
and address]

[insert date]
[insert name and address of
landowner or agent of landowner]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Ticket number: [insert ticket number]
Vehicle registration number: [insert vehicle registration number]

You issued me with a parking ticket on [insert date] but I believe it was [select from unfairly / unlawfully / illegally] issued. [if asked] I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following [select from reason / reasons]:

[Important: fill in the sections below and delete any bullets that don’t apply]

• The alleged contravention did not occur
Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong and the vehicle was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued. This is due to the fact [insert reason here]. Please see attached evidence, [explain your evidence here & include and refer to documentary evidence if you have any], as proof of my claim.

• There was insufficient signage
The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. Please see attached evidence, [explain your evidence here & include and refer to documentary evidence if you have any], I have gathered as proof.

• The vehicle was not parked on the land in question
You issued a ticket for supposedly breaking your parking restrictions yet the vehicle was actually parked [insert where you parked] meaning you had no authority to issue a ticket. Please see attached evidence, [explain your evidence here & include and refer to documentary evidence if you have any], as proof.

• Mitigating circumstances
There are mitigating circumstances to explain why I parked where I did and I am requesting that the charge be waived for this reason. Please see attached evidence, [explain your evidence here & include and refer to documentary evidence if you have any], as proof of my claim.

[If appealing to a BPA member] The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable
The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

In my case, the [insert figure] charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of [insert details of the parking costs eg if the fee is £50 but parking costs £1-an-hour you’d need to have been there for 50 hours to justify the charge]. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

etc, etc.

Many thanks!!

Redx

use the BPA one in blue text from the NEWBIES sticky thread that you said you had read, its the only one I know of and is up to date and you can trust coupon-mad who wrote it

the other thread I linked you to tells that poster the same thing (to read and follow the NEWBIES sticky thread) - and they reporoduced it in their first post, so not exactly "hidden"

dont bother with the hopelessly out of date drivel from MSE staff which they have been asked to change or remove on numerous occasions yet have failed to do anything at all

Rich1234a

Many thanks for your reply. Yes, I read the newbies sticky and all the MSE staff stuff too, which is why I was confused!

I'll do that.

Just out of interest, can I ask at what stage in the process I would actually tell them about 'what actually happened', or does that never happen? From what I can see, it is a legal framework that the process is designed to tackle, as opposed to us appealing to someone's 'logical' mind?

Many thanks in advance,
Rich

Redx

its not going to happen because if you look at it from their point of view , no permit was visible so the pcn was correctly issued , any mitigation is irrelevant to them, no permit was displayed so pay up and in effect your "witness statement" in post #1 is simply proof for the claimant and is damning on the apellant (the defendant , ie:- you)

so your appeals will be based on legal arguments challenging their authority and ability to pursue the charge

so arguments in the popla appeal will include :-

no contract
no locus standii
poor signage
any usage of camera pictures issues
BPA CoP issues
POFA2012 issues
not a gpeol
differences compared to the Beavis court case

also, NTK failures

(one has not been issued yet) , hence why you appeal as KEEPER on day 26 as fully explained in the newbies sticky thread, if you "forget" then as keeper you will respond when the NTK arrives between day 29 and day 56 , using that same blue text template

so legal arguments challenging their authority and ability to bring claims, not about what happened, not about mitigation due to the circumstances

any sob story may be used in any possible court case further down the line, as a judge may use their discretion , but as only the driver would know what is in post #1 (what happened on the day) and you are appealing as keeper and not driver, then a drivers appeal is a wasted appeal

they do not have "logical minds" , they dont care what happened , they dont "have a heart" , they are "uncaring"

why ? because it doesnt add a penny to their profits and bonuses, so as all they care about is big fat paychecks and profits and foreign holidays paid for by "rule breakers" like you

why would they wish to cancel ?

on a financial level, cancellation does not make sense so their bean counters will prohibit cancellations as much as possible

in fact, they are fraudsters who were doctoring photographs in order to defraud legitimate people who had correctly parked and were within the time limits, so again , why would they wish to help you ?

see parking pranksters blogs about it and their DVLA suspensions and BPA investigations

Rich1234a

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain that. I appreciate it and it all makes sense.

I'll follow all of the advice.

Thanks again!!

Rich1234a

Hi,

My three week deadline is tomorrow, to send my appeal. I have had no contact from them. Should I still send the appeal or wait to see if they write to me?

I'm thinking it is still best to send the appeal!

Many thanks

Redx

they should not have contacted you as RK at all, not allowed until day 29 onwards, this is why you appeal at the last minute , to try to deflect an NTK from arriving by day 56 so you would then have more appeal points

its all explained in the NEWBIES sticky thread as to why you have made this delay (and why would our previous advice change anyway ?)

Coupon-mad

Rich1234a wrote: »

Hi,

My three week deadline is tomorrow, to send my appeal. I have had no contact from them. Should I still send the appeal or wait to see if they write to me?

I'm thinking it is still best to send the appeal!

Many thanks

Yes, that's the whole point and you seem to be missing it. They can't have written yet, as Redx says, they are not allowed.

The whole point of appealing around day 25, online on their website and calling yourself the 'registered keeper' (NOT talking about who was driving) is to make them get busy with the appeal so they forget to send a Notice to Keeper after 28 days...

...then if you have to do POPLA stage if they reject the first appeal, guess what your first appeal point is? Yep, no Notice to Keeper!

Rich1234a

Many thanks for your responses and for clarifying that in my mind. It is day 23 today, so I will wait until day 25 appeal online.

Many thanks for your time and help, it is greatly appreciated,

Kind regards,