Over to you E-on

peter.collins443

Hi peter.collins443 and welcome to E.ON. I'm sorry the switch is causing you problems. Thought it might help to let you know what happens when a supply changes hands.

Meter readings and other details are passed between the two suppliers and certain third parties like the regional distributors, meter operators, meter readers, national databases etc. This is done via a series of electronic messages. This is to let all those involved with your energy supply know about the changed circumstances. Although we're already supplying, it may be longer before all the information's in place.

One of the messages concerns the meter readings. They go to a third party who check they're in line with past usage at the property. Sometimes, they'll amend them depending on what information they already hold. The readings are then sent to both suppliers. We'll use the readings to open your account and the old supplier will use the same ones to close their account and send their final bill. This makes sure the same energy is only charged once.

Although we're supplying, whilst this is going on, it may not be possible to do certain things on your account. It'll affect online services too. Also, electric and gas data can transfer at different times. I suspect this is what's happening with your electricity readings.

Each switch differs and the actual time depends on how quickly we receive the information. I'd expect everything to be in place within a couple of weeks, may be sooner. Don't worry, once all's through, it'll be backdated to the time we started supplying. Similarly with the meter readings. They'll start from the supply change date and be the same as those the old supplier uses to close their account so you won't be paying any extra to them.

Sorry again for the delay peter.collins443 but hope this helps to explain what happens.

Malc

In 42 years as an energy consumer I have never had a problem transferring between suppliers (from the likes of Northern Gas, Northern Power, Npower, EDF, Scottish power etc .... Till this transfer ......... All went through speedily.... Not this time

In 42 years as an energy consumer I have never had a problem giving my final meter readings to my old supplier at the same time as new supplier...... with out any problems.... Not this time

Sorry to say it but its time the government and Ofgem sorted this issue out and made life easier and less complicated for the end user..

Its time Ofgem forced energy suppliers to implement One day transfers

Ofgem leads radical shake up of energy switching process

Publication date 16th June 2014


Information types

• Ofgem approves suppliers’ proposals to cut switching time to three days after statutory two week cooling off period, by the end of 2014
• Ofgem is leading radical reforms to put next day switching in place by end 2018 at latest
• Proposals will also improve the reliability of the switching process
• Faster and more reliable switching set to improve consumer confidence to shop around for a better energy deal

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-releases/ofgem-leads-radical-shake-energy-switching-process

also

3. New enforcement rules (ofgem publication date 16th June 2014)

From this August new Ofgem rules will come into force meaning suppliers could face investigation and fines if they do not complete the switching process within a five week period (comprising two weeks cooling off period upfront and three weeks to make the switch). The rules also mean suppliers must stamp out cases where customers are switched by mistake.

more at
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-releases/ofgem-leads-radical-shake-energy-switching-process

peter.collins443

Wolf3

In 42 years as an energy consumer I have never had a problem transferring between suppliers (from the likes of Northern Gas, Northern Power, Npower, EDF, Scottish power etc .... Till this transfer ......... All went through speedily.... Not this time

are you seriously saying your 4-6 week transfer in the previous years before faster switching, was speedier than the 18 days it takes now?? The energy reading you provided will in all likelihood be used as the reading for the transfer as long as it is in line with the readings your previous supplier provided as history.

Its time Ofgem forced energy suppliers to implement One day transfers

Will never happen not in a million years with the industry in its current format. There are 8 separate parties and over 100 separate electronic dataflows involved regarding the transfer of your electricity supply, not just your old and new supplier. It is more streamlined for the Gas as there is only 1 main gas distribution network, with a few small independent distribution companies.This was put in place when the energy industry was privatized, and other energy suppliers were expected to enter the market, to ensure no energy supplier would bill you for the same energy used. It takes at least 1 month for all this information to be passed about between every interested party. It is a rare occurrence any problem occurs and most of the time it is not the suppliers who are causing the issues with the transfer. Both the suppliers and other 3rd parties involved can disagree over the information. They can haggle over this information for a maximum of 14 months.

D_M_E

Meter readings and other details are passed between the two suppliers and certain third parties like the regional distributors, meter operators, meter readers, national databases etc. This is done via a series of electronic messages. This is to let all those involved with your energy supply know about the changed circumstances. Although we're already supplying, it may be longer before all the information's in place.
Posted by E.ON Company Rep Malc

Yes, all very well, but the database which holds information on a property's usage over the last 70 years - or since it was built - should be scrapped.

What happens when the property gets a new occupier who uses far less energy than the previous occupier?

Simple answer - the supplier takes no account of the new occupier's usage and bases their closing/opening readings on the information supplied by the database and ignores everything else:

Ignores readings and photos of the meters and customers get estimated bills which bear no relation to actual usage and the gaining/losing supplier will not listen to the customer.

Wolf3

What happens when the property gets a new occupier who uses far less energy than the previous occupier?

The National Database or more specifically the average Settlement Information recorded for the property, should only be used as a last resort. This is only used if the previous Data Aggregators cannot provide any Settlement information and the Data Collector's meter read history does not correspond to the meter readings provided by the new supplier from the customer or new supplier have not provided the readings.
It is up to the new supplier to raise a dispute on the customers behalf if the difference between the readings are greater than 250 units for an electricity meter and 120 units for a metric gas meter.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

peter.collins443 wrote: »

In 42 years as an energy consumer I have never had a problem transferring between suppliers (from the likes of Northern Gas, Northern Power, Npower, EDF, Scottish power etc .... Till this transfer ......... All went through speedily.... Not this time

In 42 years as an energy consumer I have never had a problem giving my final meter readings to my old supplier at the same time as new supplier...... with out any problems.... Not this time

Sorry to say it but its time the government and Ofgem sorted this issue out and made life easier and less complicated for the end user..

Its time Ofgem forced energy suppliers to implement One day transfers

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-releases/ofgem-leads-radical-shake-energy-switching-process

also



more at
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-releases/ofgem-leads-radical-shake-energy-switching-process

peter.collins443

Hi peter.collins443

We went over to faster switching last year. Since then, we look to switch accounts in about two and half weeks. This is 14 calendar days cooling off plus 3 working days. Cooling off allows customers to change their mind and stop a switch without affecting their current supply. We then look to complete the registration in 3 working days. Previously switches usually took between 4 to 6 weeks to go through.

To achieve this, registration now runs alongside cooling off. As Wolf3 explains, there are a number of third parties involved with your energy supply. Information needs to be passed between these third parties and the gaining/losing suppliers. It's important the right information is put in place otherwise billing and communication will be affected. This hasn't changed and can take quite a time to complete. What's changed is the time it takes us to register the new account on our systems so we can start supplying from a much earlier date. As I said the other day, we'll continue to update the account as the information comes through. The start date won't be affected. This will stay the same and be in line with a two and a half week switch.

To help limit potential errors, we lock down certain account functions until the information is received. This includes our online services. Also agree with Wolf3, in most cases the readings customers give us are used. Particularly if there's a history of regular and accurate readings for the property. Usually, it's only when the third party identifies a mismatch between the readings provided and what's gone before that an issue will be flagged. From what you've posted, I suspect you give readings regularly so should be okay and, more than likely, we'll use your readings.

Just to let you know, if the third party were to propose start readings substantially out of line with yours, there's an industry wide process to challenge them. It's what's known as an Agreed Reads Dispute (ARD).This lets the two suppliers re-agree starting/closing readings between them. As Wolf3 points out, the difference needs to be more than 250 units (electricity) and 125/45 units (gas - 5 dial/4 dial meter). Differences below these limits won't be changed. It just means paying one supplier a bit more and the other a bit less.

Hope this helps explain what happens peter.collins443.

Malc

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

D_M_E wrote: »

Meter readings and other details are passed between the two suppliers and certain third parties like the regional distributors, meter operators, meter readers, national databases etc. This is done via a series of electronic messages. This is to let all those involved with your energy supply know about the changed circumstances. Although we're already supplying, it may be longer before all the information's in place.
Posted by E.ON Company Rep Malc

Yes, all very well, but the database which holds information on a property's usage over the last 70 years - or since it was built - should be scrapped.

What happens when the property gets a new occupier who uses far less energy than the previous occupier?

Simple answer - the supplier takes no account of the new occupier's usage and bases their closing/opening readings on the information supplied by the database and ignores everything else:

Ignores readings and photos of the meters and customers get estimated bills which bear no relation to actual usage and the gaining/losing supplier will not listen to the customer.

Hi D_M_E

This is a bit different. A change of occupier is handled separately from a change of supplier and doesn't involve the national databases in the same way.

When responsibility for a property changes, we rely on the new/old occupier, landlord, letting agent etc contacting us to let us know. We've a specialist Home Moves team who look after this type of change and they can be contacted in various ways. These include by phone, email or letter and through our twitter/Facebook channels. There's also an online form that can be used. We'll use the details given to close the old account and issue a final bill. A new account for the person taking over responsibility will be created at the same time.

National databases aren't used for this type of information. We're grateful to those involved with a change of responsibility for as much information they're able to give. Photos are great. If possible, these can be tweeted to us so we have them virtually instantly. Meter readings for the date of the changeover mean we're able to open/close accounts accurately. Even better if provided with a date verified photo. Keeps estimated bills and third party disputes to a minimum.

Totally understand, when moving home there are many things to think about. The more information we're given, though, the more accurate the changeover will be. Most problems tend to arise when we're not given the details or we receive conflicting information from the old/new occupant.

Hope this explains the different processes D_M_E.

Malc

D_M_E

Hi, Malc - I understand the process of switching (I'm no longer with E.ON) but I made my comment because in my case I was informed that the old/new suppliers agreed readings were down to the national database, which gave an estimated usage which would have meant me using power for a whole year before I actually reached the reading supplied by the database, despite the fact that I supplied dated photos of the actual meter readings requested on the day of the switch.

This took me a 4 month fight to get corrected and agreed switch readings which were eventually within 5 units of the actual readings supplied, to which I agreed.

If, like me in that case, people had to wait a whole year before benefitting from lower prices, not many would benefit, particularly as the deal I switched to only lasted a year anyway.

That is why I remarked about the customer being ignored.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Ah! I see D_M_E. That's certainly a long time to finalise a switch. I suspect the delay began with the third party I mentioned above who deal with Data Management (post 10). These are the ones who check readings are in line with previous usage for properties. They're the ones who send estimated readings if they disagree with those proposed.

Had you recently moved into the property when you started the switch? If yes, you're right, estimates will have been based on past usage as this will be the only information available. Understand where you're coming from and that it looked like your readings were being ignored. This is why there's the Agreed Reads Dispute (ARD) I mentioned in post 16 above. This is where the two suppliers re-agree readings so the opening/closing readings match and the energy is only charged once. Was one raised to sort out your issue?

I can't speak for other suppliers but, where we're the gaining supplier, we'll back date readings and charges to the actual date we start supplying (post 10 above). This makes sure customers benefit from the prices they switched to from the first day we started supplying. With the relatively new Faster Switching (post 16 above), this is usually about two and half weeks after starting the switch. The ARD will take longer but will then be backdated as above. Although not usually as long as you had to wait. Really sorry if we contributed to this delay.

Malc

D_M_E

Hi, Malc

I had been in the property for 12 months when I did the switch.

Yes, my readings were being ignored, despite the fact I was supplying photos of the actual readings.

The switch itself only took 3 weeks, it was the Agreed Reads Dispute which took 4 months - the losing supplier sent estimated reads (and vastly overestimated bills to me) of a year's usage to the gaining supplier who then raised the ARD after I supplied dated photos of the meters over a two week period.

The previous occupier used around 25 Kwh electricity per day on average, whereas my consumption is currently 5 Kwh per day and I expect this to fall to around 4 when the current cold period is done.

As for gas, over the 12 months I have been in the property my gas usage was less than half that of the previous occupier, so I think you will understand why I was aggrieved at being billed for a year's energy on switching and why I complained to both losing and gaining suppliers

To finish, no, the meters are not faulty - the daily figure I quoted above has been more or less the same for the last 50 years or so, with seasonal peaks when profligate visitors stay, and I expect the gas consumption to fall as there's a new boiler - which, over the last 2 months has used a lot less than the old one - and the property gets warmer a lot quicker than under the old installation and I estimate that, at today's prices, the new boiler will pay for itself within 4 years or so from the savings made - money well spent.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi D_M_E

Yes,I can certainly understand why you were aggrieved. 4 months to sort out an ARD is way longer than usual. They're generally done and dusted within about 4 weeks.

I suspect you're right and the drastic difference in usage caused the readings to be flagged, rejected and estimates sent instead. Even so, it still shouldn't have taken that long to sort out.

Glad it's sorted now and, as above, I'm sorry if we contributed to this delay.

Malc