Is section 21 valid if Landlord hadn't signed Tenancy agreement?

Pixie5740

always_sunny wrote: »

just curious really, but going the hard way wouldn't make it difficult to rent in the future?

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how well future landlords reference you. If you go for social housing then you need to (although you shouldn't have to) go the hard way in order for the council to re-home you as deannatrois can attest to.

Guest101

always_sunny wrote: »

just curious really, but going the hard way wouldn't make it difficult to rent in the future?

It could, but it may not.

kinger101

The way I've always thought of it is that if the landlord wants you out, they're less inclined to give you a bad reference. But it might depend on how the request was drafted. Usually they ask specific questions like was rent paid on time? Was legal action required to evict? But if you play hard within the rules, they can't really slate you for these. Would you let to the tenant again? Hmmm.

Of course, some LL/agents also might ask for more than one reference, particularly if the current one only covers say 12 months. Once you're out, the former LL might respond differently.

Coastfodder

Thank you so much everyone. We have been here 9 years. The landlord has never been very good at getting repairs done so we would just pay for them ourselves. We even had the gas safety checks done ourselves and two repairs to the boiler as our heating would break down every winter. After the second time the engineer said it needed replacing but LL refused. Each time we were without hearing and hot water for several days. So the next time it happened we called emergency engineer out and got it fixed same day at our expense. Nearly two years ago water started to come in through the electric ceiling fan in the shower from the roof. The lights blew too but LL didn't do anything. A couple of months later the sash broke on the old sash Windows and the lock was also broken. LL looked but did nothing. It's been propped up with wood ever since. 5 months later an agent came round and said they were now managing the property. We were not to do anything to the house but were to go through them to speak to LL. We were really pleased because we thought the problems would be fixed. We had offered to pay ourselves to get them fixed but LL said no. Agents were very happy with how we had looked after the property. We'd had blocked paving fitted and a secure side gate fitted to make the outside safer for our children a couple of years previous. We did get permission for that! They noted the window and the electrics and took photos of these and pictures of the rotten fascia boards. Long story short is that they have been trying to get the LL to do repairs ever since. Every quote they got LL said no. LL did send someone round to seal a pipe in the roof and the man also noted the window and other problems. He didn't fix the electrics or do any other work. But, LL told agent all the work had been done! I then mailed agent and copied in LL saying we had been more than patient but surely there was a breach of contract now. Please make repairs as our home insurance was invalid because the house wasn't secure and my husband sleeps downstairs as we are worried about break ins. The very next day with only 20 mins notice a gas safety engineer called and said the landlady wanted him to do the annual check. We called agent and they knew nothing about it. I asked if he knew of a way to reduce our gas bill as it is £143 pcm. He told us the main cause was the window. We checked our bills and a few weeks after the window broke our gas bill was raised by £40 a month. I asked agent if we could be reimbursed. The next thing we know is we were handed the section 21 :-(. The agents is appalled for us. I have no idea what we can do. I'm disabled with 4 children at home, 1 of whom is autistic and has learning difficulties. I'm due major surgery in May to help my condition and once I'd recovered we were looking to move anyway. I mailed the agent and asked for an extension till August. He pleaded our case but LL said no. Agent doesn't know what LL is planning to do with the house.

Coastfodder

I forgot to say we've checked and the agent did serve notice properly. They've always been fantastic.

[Deleted User]

I am very sorry but none of that will make much difference. I know its dreadful. If you have to go the hard way (ask for social housing) as I did, the kids special needs will help ( I was able to get lots of medical professionals do reports for the council saying that one room emergency accommodation was completely unsuitable given the needs of our children, so we were able to go straight into a two bed maisonette rather than single room accommodation with shared facilities).

But it was stressful and you didn't know quite what would happen and when. However, there is a rhythm to it.

Two months after the S21 has been issued, the LL can go to court for a Possession Order. You will be sent the paperwork. In reply to the claim form, you can say that you need an extension (if its near your operation time) and it should be granted - for up to 42 days but I imagine you might want it to happen as soon as possible as probably better if you move before operation time in May). Meanwhile hopefully the council will assess your need and regardless of what they say, (they often gatekeep and try to put you off applying for social housing by telling you they will find you voluntarily homeless, but the reality is, even if you had some rent arrears, they ARE obligated to help and put you in emergency housing (if arrears exist the time can be limited, if you don't, it won't be). So make sure you are up to date with the rent (sure you are). Give the council the court paperwork.

Ask what the council's policy is. Some will place you in emergency accommodation that is basically in B&B in another part of the country (cheaper). If this is what your council does as the norm, present a case as to why this will not work (you and your kids needs). This should help. Get all the medical professionals who help your family to write reports/letters. Get social workers to help if you can too. There's a joint referral form that most councils will act on if a social worker fills it out, saying your family is in need. Start working on this now - I was lucky, I had plenty of warning before the S21 was even issued so I went from no one helping the family to loads of medical professionals and social workers involved because of the family's needs when the S21 was actually issued). However even all this, communicating with them all was a cause of stress as well, but even I was able to cope by doing things on a day by day basis.

Get environmental health involved in the repairs to your house. They should issue a repairs notice to your LL. It won't help you, but it will make sure the repairs get done (can take months though for LL to respond).

If you are able to go for another private rental, start saving, ask for an extension if you need it when Possession Order is applied for. You will need to be able to cover the admin costs of the LA, and another deposit/months rent in advance. However I assume you are still in the property you are because moving would be difficult financially and so will need to apply for social housing as already said.

Once the possession order is granted, (you will be given a date when you need to move out by) - this will be at least two weeks after the ending of the S21 to help you work out how long all this takes. It can be longer if you ask for an extension and depending on how quick the LL puts the paperwork in - the LL can apply for a Bailiffs warrant. This is what will actually evict you. Only the bailiffs have the power to evict you legally. The LL can't on his own.

Once the Bailiffs Warrant is issued, the council will then take your situation seriously. Before this, you will probably see little action from them. Basically, they will only act as if you ARE going to be homeless once you are within 28 days of being evicted by Bailiffs. They aren't supposed to leave it this long, but I'm afraid councils often do. Mine certainly did. They told me they would not be able to put us in emergency housing until the day of or the day before the bailiffs turn up as shown on the bailiffs warrant.

Make sure you are all packed up and ready to go. Because I had some physical problems, we were ready to go in the main a couple of weeks before the Bailiffs warrant date because it took me extra time to pack up. The council are supposed to help with this process (packing up, finding storage for your stuff) but the council totally ignored me when I asked. I put my stuff in a friend of a friend's storage container, thank goodness, with the agreement that it would come out in stages once I knew where I was going. The LL is supposed to keep your stuff for a week or so once you are evicted. He's not allowed to immediately start putting it in a skip - and you may be able to get more help from the council than I did.

The bad news is, I am afraid, that the council can insist you have to go through these two court process stages (possession order and Bailiffs warrant) before they will find you involuntarily homeless - and you have to pay for the court costs. I'm sorry, its very unfair. The possession order cost me £280, the bailiffs warrant £110. The court orders you to pay the LL these costs (he pays them initially). I arranged for the LL to take it out my deposit which meant I had very little left at the end of it all (he did return the rest).

Now, its a horrible stressful process. I will never forget it. I made loads of long stressed posts on here, and it was one of the more difficult times of my life because of the uncertainty. I got lots of support on here (still thanking everyone in my head BTW). But now I have a 2 bed maisonette and everything works. Its warm, the lights don't explode (light bulbs actually last more than two weeks here), The gas supply works here, I can use all the plug sockets in the kitchen, there's no gale winds inside the house because there's a hole in the roof that no matter of DIY repairs will fill (another thing the LL refused to do). Its not in a brilliant area, but its not in the worst either so to me all this is heaven. I will need to move again into permanent accommodation but I'm in no rush (the council can bid for you after 12 weeks but fortunately the way my council awards priority its going to be a couple of years before I have chance of getting anything). This place is twice the size of the house I was renting and the council have just replaced a broken radiator in the lounge so it feels like the tropics for the same money I was paying in the drafty badly repaired private rental. As soon as we moved here, we all just relaxed, even the kids. We are in heaven. Sorry, that probably sounds OTT but its true as the house we were in was unsafe and badly repaired. No mould, no damp etc. And the council actually do their repairs, unlike my LL. The boiler's pump was replaced within two weeks here, (I'd been asking for the ancient boiler to be repaired for two years in the private rental property).

So its a horrible process but if you can get all your balls in a row as far as priority and your family's needs are concerned, it will be a lot better for you all in the end.

I did have to buy a cooker, an fridge (got a really good almost new used one on Ebay for £46), flooring from ebay (stair carpet from good quality carpet shop remnants on ebay is costing me £60, I have 2mx3m rugs from ebay for £50 in the bedrooms as would cost £100 for even cheap carpet). So you can cut your costs to a minimum other than court costs.

I hope that all makes sense.

BTW the LL was trying to get me to let builders in while I was struggling to pack the house up, allow tenants to view (who all had urgent needs it seems). I refused the lot as I had enough going on. And frankly, I wasn't feeling best prepared to help the LL out. He took ten days to get the place in a better shape than it ever was when i rented it, after I moved out, including replacing the warped frayed laminate he refused to since the day I moved in four years ago but all these 'tenant' with urgent need seem to have vanished. The place is still empty over a month later. So don't listen to your LL's sob stories. I assume he's selling the place but its not going to be a quick sale because anyone can look through the surface and see it needs extensive repairs still. But he probably doesn't get that yet.

kinger101

Based on your recent post (#15), I'd recommend you contact Shelter. If you are in a situation where you may need your local authority to rehouse you, sometimes it's very important that you only move out when you are evicted by the courts (rather than the expiry of the notice).

[Deleted User]

Its always very important to only move out when bailiffs warrant is executed, not earlier, if you want the council to rehouse you.

They will regard you as making yourself voluntarily homeless if you move out earlier.

Coastfodder

Thank you so much. Myself and my daughter are registered as disabled. I have a blue badge and we have disabled parking. I have numourous conditions and am not able to digest solid food which is part of the reason for the surgery. The council told me our 18 year old daughter will have to sort herself out but she's our child, it's so wrong :-(. I'm ashamed to say that I haven't coped very well with this and am under the mental health crisis team. I've only been out of trauma PTSD treatment for 6 months and have been trying so hard to cope with it all. But it's too much. My husband is also seeing a councillor as he needs support to deal with my health issues and our autistic young daughter. My immune system attacks my own body so I have to be so careful. I have numourous admissions. This is all such a mess. I've been trying to get through in the Shelter helpline all morning but they are busy. Although I'm filled with hope from your post in still so worried for our family :-(

theartfullodger

Very sorry to read your story but that does not prevent the s21 process proceeding: It might allow you to have up to 42 days rather than the usual 14 before possession order date from court decision.

Thatcher's s21 of Housing Act 1988 allows a landlord to evict a tenant for no reason at all, regardless of circumstances, via at least 2 months notice etc etc...

Suggest involving council housing & shelter, pronto.

Shelter are open today 0808 800 4444