External shutters

Furts

Luca_timber_windows wrote: »

Hi the_r_sole,
do you know Accoya wood? It is a particular kind of wood guaranteed 50 years against rot, the maintenance on this kind of material is once a year with a water based spray.
Also the painting can be guaranteed for 15 years!

Hi Luca
Clearly you do not know the mindset of typical UK consumers. Many do not dip their oil in their car engines, others do not know how to do it. An easy task but not done. Moving to windows, there are few consumers who lubricate the mechanism of their upvc windows and likewise their door locks.

There is no chance of UK consumers installing pointless window shutters and then being expected to climb a ladder of annual basis to spray a water based coating. But if they did, how do you propose they avoid the spray and drift going into the face brickwork. I will give you a tip, you may have noticed we do not build everywhere with white, easy wipe off, or patch in, render.

Smiley_Dan

the_r_sole wrote: »

not sure what I would use, the difficulty with timber in the uk is that timber expands/contracts and deteriorates if not properly maintained so when you have two things that are meant to sit tightly together that have been exposed for years, the likelihood of them fitting snugly is minimal and they are not easily maintained given their location.

Well you can maintain them then but see Furts re maintenance. He's right.

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/completed-projects/a-lochside-barn-conversion/
https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/completed-projects/a-sustainable-long-house/

Another thing is that if we ever start building houses properly, we may need shutters to minimise over heating.

Luca_Festa

Hi Furts,
thank you for your help!
Do you think that an Italian customer do everything that we suggest? :beer:

System

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

Well you can maintain them then but see Furts re maintenance. He's right.

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/completed-projects/a-lochside-barn-conversion/
https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/completed-projects/a-sustainable-long-house/

Another thing is that if we ever start building houses properly, we may need shutters to minimise over heating.

the first one - I wouldn't say having timber doors on a barn that would have had timber doors in those openings doesnt particularly translate to typical window shutters, I would also say they don't look good and will suffer from the issues outlined in my post.
The second, the briese looks ok, but the full wall sliders again aren't typical window shutters and really don't look good when they are closed but each to their own

I would guess that they are entirely different from the product being discussed here

Luca_Festa

Smiley Dan, you're right.

Bear in mind that external shutters protect your windows (timber-alu-uPVC) against bad weather conditions, and, as you know, change a window is not cheaper than change a shutter.

leveller2911

External shutters are ok on some properties but the vast majority of the public aren't interested..

Accoya is Radiata pine trees harvested in New Zealand and transported half way round the world to Holland (Netherlands) where the timber goes into a vacuum tank, the moisture is drawn out of the timber which is then impregnated with a form of Acetic Acid (Vinegar). The timber is then transported all over the world and sold for a hefty premium, in many cases its mor expensive than Euro Oak.

Its durable but no more durable than European Oak, in fact good quality Oak will last 100's of years but the jury is well and truely out with regards to Accoya. Its very stable so its especially good for Bi-fold doors. You can only use certain paints,adhesives and fixings when using Accoya because of the acid content.

There is also an external MDF made via the same process called Tricoya and is also very stable but hugely expensive so expect to pay £120-00 for an 8x4 sheet instead of the usual £25-00 for Moisture resistant MDF (which is not for external use).

Furts

Please_change_usernme wrote: »

Smiley Dan, you're right.

Bear in mind that external shutters protect your windows (timber-alu-uPVC) against bad weather conditions, and, as you know, change a window is not cheaper than change a shutter.

I am imagining the sales pitch for this argument. It might go along the lines of

"Oh Darling, I do believe it is raining outside. Let us both lean out of our upstairs windows and get wet whilst we close our shutters to protect our ever lasting, maintenance free, upvc windows. We cannot have our precious glass getting wet can we?"

Or "Oh Darling, I do believe the wind is getting up. Let us go up and attempt to draw our shutters closed against this fierce gale. I hope they do not get wrenched out of our hands."

If shutters were fitted to UK houses I guess well over 90% of occupants would not bother using them. I base this on my experience of trickle vents. How many consumers use these in terms of opening and closing as prudent considering humidity, condensation, and the prevailing wind direction?

Luca_Festa

leveller2911 wrote: »

External shutters are ok on some properties but the vast majority of the public aren't interested..

Accoya is Radiata pine trees harvested in New Zealand and transported half way round the world to Holland (Netherlands) where the timber goes into a vaccum tank, the moisture is drawn out of the timber which is then impregnated with a form of Acetic Acid (Vinegar). The timber is then transported all over the world and sold for a hefty premium, in many cases its mor expensive than Euro Oak.

Its durable but no more durable than European Oak, in fact good quality Oak will last 100's of years but the jury is well and truely out with regards to Accoya. Its very stable so its especially good for Bi-fold doors. You can only use certain paints,adhesives and fixings when using Accoya because of the acid content.

There is also an external MDF made via the same process called Tricoya and is also very stable but hugely expensive so expect to pay £120-00 for an 8x4 sheet instead of the usual £25-00 for Moisture resistant MDF (which is not for external use).

Absolutely no! In the best cases timber window last up to 70-80 yrs. But European Oak doesn't last 100 yrs (and I work with both).
I don't know if you have experience with Accoya wood and paints, I usually paint it with water based colour and we have no problem both in the city and near the sea (with salinity trouble).
Take into account that Accoya, in some case, is better than tropical hardwoods.

leveller2911

Please_change_usernme wrote: »

Absolutely no! In the best cases timber window last up to 70-80 yrs. But European Oak doesn't last 100 yrs (and I work with both).

Luca you can visit houses all over the UK that have oak windows dating back 100,200,300,400 years and all constructed from English/European Oak. Its a fact, sorry to say you are incorrect but you are.

The oldest Oak windows that I have worked on were from 1545 so that was when King Henry VIII was on the throne. I often work on properties where the windows date back to the 1750's, very old windows are quite common in the UK.

Luca ,in the UK there was/is a tradition where a carpenter/Joiner puts a coin under a new window or door frame when they fit it. Its to bring "good luck" to the house.The reason I say this is because when I/you go and take out that old window if there is a coin under it its a fairly accurate way of dating the window.You also have to look at the way in which the window was made and its style. I have found coins as early as 1696 under a window.

On sash /Boxframe windows around 1750 the pulleys were all constructed from timber rather than metal pulleys usually made from a timber called "Boxwood" and I have replaced a few of these. I aslo often put a new coin under a window or dor frame I fit to keep the tradition going.On sash windows is quite common to find the name/signature of the man who made it and also a date. Its usually found on the back of the "pockets" where you fit the weights in the window.

You can find windows over 100yrs old made from Douglas fir and pitch pine but most modern softwoods such as Scandanavian Redwoods are very poor for use in windows unless vacuum treated.I replace a lot of modern windows constructed from Scandanavian Redwood pines so are only 10-12 yrs old and rotten.

I don't know if you have experience with Accoya wood and paints, I usually paint it with water based colour and we have no problem both in the city and near the sea (with salinity trouble).
Take into account that Accoya, in some case, is better than tropical hardwoods.

Yes Luca I do have some experience with using Accoya and Tricoya and as you say in some cases its a better option than some tropical hardwoods and for some jobs I would use it especially Bi fold doors and also door panels (tricoya) because it is so stable but its also very soft and damages quite easily . The downside is the cost, its hugely expensive and roughly the same price as Oak. The downside to Accoya is that its far from being enviromentally friendly,its expensive and you have a limited choice in fixings and adhesives you can use.

Accoya is over 200% more expensive than Sapele ,100% more than Iroko,250% more than Douglas fir and any of these timbers are perfectly adequate for making doors and windows in the UK. Will an Accoya constructed window last twice as long as an Iroko one? No it won't and correct me if I'm wrong but the 50yr warranty by Accoya only covers the timber for rot?. Does the warranty cover the workmanship /window construction?.

Accoya hasn't been around long enough to really judge its value in terms of lifespan and you may have heard of a material called "Asbestos"?. Post WW2 we were told Asbestos was an amazing product and great for all tyrps of products but today we know its resposible for the deaths of thousands of people.

I'm not suggesting Accoya is dangerous but I am saying its far to early to say its an amazing product with no limitations.

dominoman

Please_change_usernme wrote: »

Absolutely no! In the best cases timber window last up to 70-80 yrs. But European Oak doesn't last 100 yrs (and I work with both).

I have lived in 7 houses over the last 15 years, all in London. All except one of them was a Victorian house and had original wood sash windows.

These were rental houses and not particularly well maintained, but yet the original wooden windows were still there and looking OK after 130 years!

UPVC and Accoya(tm) still has a long way to go to match that credential.