Hacker vs Mareway Kitchens

Hollyfence

Hi,

We have had 2 different kitchens designed by 2 different designers.

1 supplies Mareway and the other Hacker. Both designs are pretty similar and about the same costs.

We find both to be of similar quality so are struggling to choose between them.

Does anyone have experience with both?

Thanks

Furts

Nobody has replied to this so I will chip in with an observation. All kitchens are much the same in terms of construction - the difference comes in the doors and worktops. You do not mention the worktop but your brands suggest you do not wish to seek low prices. You are into designer territory with added margins and all the sales puff that goes with that. That is fine by me but you need to ask some deep questions.

Some of these are: Are you happy to be spending thousands more than necessary?

Might you have a better use for this extra expenditure - perhaps an exotic holiday?

What worktop, door front and drawer front construction have you specified?

What brand appliances have you chosen for the kitchen?

Does your home justify such a kitchen, or might it be a case of gilding a pig? This is not harsh - it is a common sense commercial decision.

Only you know the answers to these. Come back by all means and open up the discussion for others to chip in.

Hope this helps.

ryder72

OP -

Here are answers to your question-

Both manufacturers do a large number of foil wrapped doors and these are the doors to avoid.

The detailing on Hacker Systemat (not classic) is better than Mereway.

Hacker will offer you more choice in planning which you might find makes for a more relevant end result.

Hacker will have more colours and finishes if thats relevant to you.

Hacker has Grass drawers which I feel are better than Blum (air damped, more load carrying capacity etc)

At this sort of price point, there are better German kitchens to look at.

Hope this helps.

Furts

ryder72 wrote: »

OP -

Here are answers to your question-

Both manufacturers do a large number of foil wrapped doors and these are the doors to avoid.

The detailing on Hacker Systemat (not classic) is better than Mereway.

Hacker will offer you more choice in planning which you might find makes for a more relevant end result.

Hacker will have more colours and finishes if thats relevant to you.

Hacker has Grass drawers which I feel are better than Blum (air damped, more load carrying capacity etc)

At this sort of price point, there are better German kitchens to look at.

Hope this helps.

Should any manufacturer of upper price bracket kitchens be offering vinyl wrapped doors? I suggest the answer is no.

Should responsible independent kitchen retailers be offering such doors? I suggest the answer is no.

This raises a question about a large national kitchen retailer. John Lewis offer such doors yet people associate John Lewis with quality.

madeinireland_2

Furts - you sound like you know what you are talking about so here is a quick question if I may...

Any advantages or disadvantages around a door that is solid wood painted compared to one that is solid wood with a veneer central section - they are shaker type doors I mean.

Also - do you have a view on the likes of DIY-KITCHENS? Their doors are veneer centre in the main it they have one called Langham which is solid wood.

Thanks...

Furts

madeinireland wrote: »

Furts - you sound like you know what you are talking about so here is a quick question if I may...

Any advantages or disadvantages around a door that is solid wood painted compared to one that is solid wood with a veneer central section - they are shaker type doors I mean.

Also - do you have a view on the likes of DIY-KITCHENS? Their doors are veneer centre in the main it they have one called Langham which is solid wood.

Thanks...

It is the consumers choice. Typical building principles mean a veneered door will be cheaper to make - it uses less solid and expensive timber. It will be lighter weight and seem rattly, or flimsy, if put against a solid door.

It is claimed with all doors that using engineered timber such as chipboard, mdf, and plywood makes a door more stable, and less likely to warping and twisting. I take this with a pinch of salt. Good doors with seasoned timber, properly made and properly used should be fine if solid timber - but they will cost more.

If I was being cynical I would suggest engineered timber was introduced to boost margins for manufacturers - no doubt the eco followers would disagree!

Your choice with diy kitchens - they get positive feedback on this forum. Beware that they probably import their doors so the doors will be no different to typical doors elsewhere. I doubt that they make them. Check with them on this.

Hope this helps.

CKdesigner

Hi

Madeinireland

The Langham door from DIY-kitchens I see from their website is solid Ash, and they get this door from Second Nature.

Like virtually all Shaker style doors described as solid timber they will be solid wood frames with a veneered ply centre panel. This is perfectly fine, you will not really find a Shaker style door with a flat centre panel that is made from solid timber, this is because this centre panel has to be made relatively thin, there for thin solid timber will warp and possible split. So veneered ply is far more stable in thinner flat pieces.

Normally you would only get a solid timber centre panel if this was raised & filled, because this would naturally be thicker.

I'm not here to sing the virtues of DIY Kitchens, but all I would say is that they seem to be probably the best online kitchen retailer in the UK. But as with all online retailers of kitchens, the missing link is the kitchen designer.

CK

ryder72

Furts wrote: »

Should any manufacturer of upper price bracket kitchens be offering vinyl wrapped doors? I suggest the answer is no.

Should responsible independent kitchen retailers be offering such doors? I suggest the answer is no.

This raises a question about a large national kitchen retailer. John Lewis offer such doors yet people associate John Lewis with quality.

Upper price is relative construct. So for where Hacker sit in the German market, its not really a higher price product. I would argue that there are many better quality products that the white label stuff that comes into the UK market and get sold as a high quality kitchen, sometimes at ridiculous prices.

Should anyone be selling a vinyl wrap. No. We dont go near them and neither to the manufacturers we work with. But that is a determinant of what the consumer wants to pay rather than what the manufacturer wants to sell. A number of better German manufacturers have completely moved away or are in the process of making the shift away from vinyls but a huge part of the mid market is squarely in the vinyl market sadly.

Madeinireland - Nothing wrong with a solid wood door with veneered panel. As CK said, often its the only way to make a door. If you decide to go with solid wood, pay careful attention to how the 4 staves have been made. Are they all one piece timber or made from tulip wood and then veneered over. One of the best selling doors supplied by a very large distributor (and also sold by DIY) is really a cheap lightweight door cut out of glued smaller sections of wood and veneered over. Its quite shocking really.

Furts

ryder72 wrote: »

Upper price is relative construct. So for where Hacker sit in the German market, its not really a higher price product. I would argue that there are many better quality products that the white label stuff that comes into the UK market and get sold as a high quality kitchen, sometimes at ridiculous prices.

Should anyone be selling a vinyl wrap. No. We dont go near them and neither to the manufacturers we work with. But that is a determinant of what the consumer wants to pay rather than what the manufacturer wants to sell. A number of better German manufacturers have completely moved away or are in the process of making the shift away from vinyls but a huge part of the mid market is squarely in the vinyl market sadly.

Madeinireland - Nothing wrong with a solid wood door with veneered panel. As CK said, often its the only way to make a door. If you decide to go with solid wood, pay careful attention to how the 4 staves have been made. Are they all one piece timber or made from tulip wood and then veneered over. One of the best selling doors supplied by a very large distributor (and also sold by DIY) is really a cheap lightweight door cut out of glued smaller sections of wood and veneered over. Its quite shocking really.

Thank you for this. It does beg the question why the "better" German manufacturers were ever involved in vinyl wrap, and also why some have not moved away from it.

Anybody with an ounce of common sense knew over a decade ago that vinyl wrap doors were utter cr-p. However the German manufacturers pretended they were superior and kept churning out the items to naive customers. I accept that the UK manufacturers were doing the same, but in general they were not pricing and marketing their kitchens in the elevated stratosphere.

To this day countless kitchen sales personnel actively mislead consumers by not accurately pricing kitchens to reflect the minimal extra cost of solid timber doors over vinyl wrapped ones.

The reason kitchen companies sell vinyl wrapped doors is because they have a vested interest in making their kitchens worn out and useless as fast as possible. The consumer then seeks a replacement kitchen. Independent retailers and German manufacturers are guilty over this- I expect little different from many in the DIY stores because many are ill trained and ignorant. Many others could not care less.

Ultimately matters lie in the hands of consumers. If they are happy to receive poor service then so be it. Independent retailers cannot claim the moral high ground - for example those near me sail close to the wind and I regard them as rogues bordering on con men.

The bottom line is the kitchen market is rotten to the core and as much of a home improvement rip off as pressure washing roof tiles.

leveller2911

ryder72 wrote: »

Madeinireland - Nothing wrong with a solid wood door with veneered panel. As CK said, often its the only way to make a door.

I agree with you there and making a solid timber panel can be a gamble even solid Tulipwood panels can move and Tulipwood is about as stable a timber as you will find.

If you decide to go with solid wood, pay careful attention to how the 4 staves have been made.

Do you mean "stiles" and "rails"?.

Are they all one piece timber or made from tulip wood and then veneered over. One of the best selling doors supplied by a very large distributor (and also sold by DIY) is really a cheap lightweight door cut out of glued smaller sections of wood and veneered over. Its quite shocking really.

Its really common now to find timber laminated up into sections and I've seen a few times a single door stile constructed from 9 different pieces of timber "comb" jointed end to end and then planed up.

Theres no benefit in making a Tulipwood door stile from 9 pieces of timber because its very stable but Pine isn't so in that respect its of benefit. The major plus for the manufacturer is they can use all the short offcuts,less waste = more profit.

Over veneering of a solid core has been around for 200yrs or more within the Joinery/furniture industry so none of us should be surprised that companies try and trim the fat to the bone with regards to costs.

It doesn't sit well with me though.

ryder72

I would like to put a few facts across -

I dont know why you feel German kitchens are stratospherically priced. I am not talking about what they get retailed at. That is matter between what a consumer is willing to pay and what the retailer can manage to sell it for. I am talking purely about the buying price of kitchens and I can assure you there are a lot of competitively priced German products out there.

Secondly, German or not, there will always be a product to meet a price point. Vinyls come in at the cheap end of the market. Ethically no one should be selling them, but when Mrs Jones wants a gloss kitchen and cant afford a glass, lacquer or acrylic door someone eventually will step in with a vinyl wrap. One could shout oneself hoarse about the ethics, of selling that vinyl wrap, but sadly those doors will get sold as long as someone has an unrealistic demand at an unrealistic price point.

I am not denying there arent rouges in the kitchen business (independents and sheds alike) but show me a sphere of life where there arent rouges. I dont know what you do for a living but I can say with absolute guarantee that there is a rouge in your line of work. So to tar everyone in the kitchen business with the same board brush is a bit unfair.

I would like to welcome you to visit our studio and see for yourself how we conduct ourselves. Perhaps it will help change your perception of what independents are capable ok.