TV License Questions

MattWenham

Hi folks,

Does anyone really know their way around the TV Licensing laws and regulations. I currently have two issues:

1. I have been paying for a TV Licence that I didn't need by direct debit for about six years. In trying to get a refund, I have been told by the call centre that I can only get a refund for the last two years of the licence. Is this correct? If so, can someone point me to the relevant regulation or legislation which stipulates this?
2. I pay a service charge on a flat, part of which is for a TV Licence for the amplification and distribution equipment which is used to send the signal to the aerial sockets in the flats. The TV Licensing website states that you need a TV Licence "if you watch or record programmes as they're being shown on TV or live on an online TV service". Since the distribution equipment presumably dosen't have a screen or any means to record TV, why do we have to lay a TV Licence on it. Again, I would be grateful if someone could point me in the direction of the relevant regulation or legislation.

Many thanks,

Dr. Matt...

Neil_Jones

1) Contact TV Licencing, but you can only go back two years:
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/refunds-and-cancellations/apply-for-a-refund

2) The TV licence is a per property/address basis. The service charge is most probably for maintenance of what I presume is a communal aerial. Your licence is for watching programmes as broadcast, not how it gets to you.

HWW

Yes, the TVL is required by law should you actually watch live TV - if you don't then do cancel it.
You can still use a TV to watch catchup online TV, DVDs and other "No licence req" TV uses.
You will of course get lots of mail from TVL inviting you to re-licence

Heinz

Martin's recently-updated post covers most points that are usually raised regarding TV licensing.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/tv-licence

Richard019

HWW wrote: »

You will of course get lots of mail from TVL inviting you to re-licence

Be prepared, when HWW says that they mean inviting in the same way that the Krays used to invite people to make a donation to their businesses. The last time I missed one as I went through the post and opened it by mistake the letter was telling me what to expect when I was in court.

I of course ignored it and threw it in the bin. I told them when I scrapped my licence I didn't need one anymore, and I'm not going to keep spending time and money responding to them to say nothing has changed. I've been waiting for a few years now now for one of their enforcement officers (read salesmen) to make the hour long drive to mine only to be told that I'm not letting them in.

System

HWW wrote: »

Yes, the TVL is required by law should you actually watch live TV - if you don't then do cancel it.
You can still use a TV to watch catchup online TV, DVDs and other "No licence req" TV uses.
You will of course get lots of mail from TVL inviting you to re-licence

I believe that will be changing , you will need a licence to watch catch up/on demand.

Cornucopia

CHRISSYG wrote: »

I believe that will be changing , you will need a licence to watch catch up/on demand.

The current proposal is that the Licence will be extended to cover BBC iPlayer catch-up, but not anything else.

Cornucopia

Heinz wrote: »

Martin's recently-updated post covers most points that are usually raised regarding TV licensing.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/tv-licence

It's a good article, but there are some inaccuracies...

1. I appreciate MSE may not officially want to say this, but the fine is "up to" £1000. The average fine in England & Wales is in the region of £150-175 + costs, and the fixed fine in Scotland is £75.

2. The article uses the term "live TV", which is easily misunderstood (though again, I accept that this seems to be the term used by TVL). A better term might be TV Broadcasts, or Linear TV.

3. "If you're absolutely sure you no longer need a TV licence, you must formally let TV Licensing know". This is simply wrong. You CAN let them know if you wish, but there is no compulsion or formality. The only situation in which it is advisable is when you are paying by Monthly DD or Cash Payment Plan or want a refund of unused periods of your existing Licence.

4. "... needs to fill out a No Licence Needed declaration form". There is no compulsion to fill out this form. It provides no real benefit for the householder, as TVL do not believe you if you tell them you don't need a Licence.

5. "you might find you get a visit from TV Licensing to check whether you actually do need a TV licence". This statement covers a vast amount of law and legal principles. Also the use of TVL's vague and euphemistic terms: "visit" and "check" is unhelpful.

TVL have no express right to visit and no right of entry to homes in their day-to-day operations. Therefore any co-operation with them is entirely at the discretion of householders. Personally, I would advise having nothing to do with them, as it has been known for them to trick people into being prosecuted (and worse). In reality, a householder has complete discretion over whether they wish to speak with TVL, whether they wish to allow TVL into their home, and whether they wish to exercise the Right to Silence or the Right to Counsel before discussing any lack of a Licence or possible evasion offence.

6. "Watching foreign TV in the UK does require a licence". This is a complicated topic. All "foreign" TV channels broadcast (or receivable) in the UK via Satellite or Cable require a Licence to view. Services that are only receivable via Internet streaming and not broadcast in the UK seem (according to the legislation) not to require a Licence. Indeed, the TVL website also used to say this. It appears not to say so any more, and since the legislation hasn't changed, there would appear to be something fishy going on. It used to say this: "Watching TV on the internet -You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel Islands".

It's worth saying that despite the BBC being one of the World's foremost communication companies, they still manage to mangle and misrepresent much of the information around the Licence Fee. In that sense, I don't blame MSE for these errors, although I suppose when the media behemoth is setting out to mislead (I can't believe it is accidental), it does behove other outlets to get to the underlying truth.

Middledyke

What's the situation regarding the need to keep a TV licence at home (ie UK) if I'm on holiday abroad for an extended period, eg 2 to 6 months at at time? Would I be okay to cancel it and then get one again when I came back off holiday, on the understanding that I would NOT be recording any live TV whilst away.

Cornucopia

If your home would be empty whilst you are away, then you don't need a Licence for it.

The complications on that are-

(a) TVL may try to back-date your Licence when you take out the new one to cover the gap. You could try paying in cash (at a Paypoint outlet) and/or giving a false name (this is not illegal as long as the purpose is not for fraud). TVL policy is that under particular circumstances, they may back-date Licences for up to 11 months.

(b) When you start the new Licence, it will start from the 1st of the month in which you renew, in which case you could lose up to 30 days.

(c) Licences can only be refunded in whole quarters. Therefore the benefit of ceasing your Licence whilst you are away may be less than you anticipate.

(d) When TVL ask why you are cancelling your Licence, it's probably best to tell them that you are giving up watching TV Broadcasts. For most other reasons, they will ask for evidence, which you may not be able/may not want to give them. There is no legal reason for them to ask for a reason, or for evidence, so it is not an offence to lie to them (and if they weren't exceeding their authority, it wouldn't be necessary).

You could go legally Licence-free (i.e. watch only catch-up) for a short period to mitigate issues (b) and (c).

onesteptoofar

If a licence expired in Jan '16, no live tv was watched between jan and april, and the licence was renewed in april...the system automatically renews from the end of the old expiry date.

should someone wish to appeal the renewal date, would tv licencing be able to prove if live tv had or hadnt been accessed from that address?