Notice given by tenants

Bordeuax

crap .. dont' listen go to citizen advice

bobobski

clivoclivo wrote: »

I did

It was on next day and signed for. so Posted on 4th.

I mentioned proof. Reliance on the Post Office's "next day" service being flawless doesn't count as proof, to me. As I and others have said, just get on and re-let. Even if you try to enforce a few days' extra rent (why are you so concerned about this sum - are you close to the edge financially?) they're likely to do a runner. Unless your query really comes down to what you can take out of the deposit?

Bordeuax

bobobski wrote: »

I mentioned proof. Reliance on the Post Office's "next day" service being flawless doesn't count as proof, to me. As I and others have said, just get on and re-let. Even if you try to enforce a few days' extra rent (why are you so concerned about this sum - are you close to the edge financially?) they're likely to do a runner. Unless your query really comes down to what you can take out of the deposit?

yes it does. legal bind contact:)

clivoclivo

bobobski wrote: »

I mentioned proof. Reliance on the Post Office's "next day" service being flawless doesn't count as proof, to me. As I and others have said, just get on and re-let. Even if you try to enforce a few days' extra rent (why are you so concerned about this sum - are you close to the edge financially?) they're likely to do a runner. Unless your query really comes down to what you can take out of the deposit?

I guess it's just principle now: they agreed on renewing, failed to return signed contract which they try and work in their favour now. So already excepting a month loss, they then can't even give proper notice by giving a full month. Talking about a few days of £390 here.

G_M

Good grief - mountain & molehill.

Tenants are leaving. Go round (ring for appointment first) with a cake and sit down over tea & cake & discuss a convenient date to end the tenancy.

Discuss hand-back of keys & check out inspection.

Confirm the date, and details, by letter and ask them to return a signed copy.

everyone knows where they stand.

Advertise for new tenants.

Live happy ever after.

OK - now some legalistic responses:

clivoclivo wrote: »

Agreement: Asssured shorthold tenancy for 12 months. ...expired 2 months ago and on meeting the tenants they expressed the wish to renew. so a wish only, not a renewal

So agreement with same conditions got sent. Chasing them up for the signed copy I was told they haven't received it.
So not renewed. Had the fixed term expired by this time?
Yes? A Periodic Tenancy exists.
No? The fixed term still exists.

I repost and receive a phone call the same day to tell me they changed their mind, want to move out and believe they entered in a periodic tenancy since the agreement didn’t get signed.
Correct (assuming the fixed term has expired).

The written notice has arrived by post and it's less than a calendar month. Received today 5th- wishing to move out on 29th Feb.
* if the tenancy is now Statutory Periodic, then notice should be a full tenancy period, not a calender month.
* if the tenancy is now Contractual Periodic, then notice should be as specified in the contract, or if contract is silent, then a full tenancy period

I believe my options are:
1: Stress that they agreed on renewing: verbal agreements count don't they? Also in an email when I chased the return of the signed agreement it was written by them that they would sign as soon as they receive a new copy. I could argue that they were willing to sign, so are in an agreement and 2 months notice would be applicable.
Forget this option.
Though if it were applicable, where do you get '2 months notice' from - is there an unusual Break Clause?

2: Accept the one months notice, but not the moving out date they request. So notice received by signed-for post on 5th. Notice starts from next day, so responsible for rent until 5th March? Which is basically another week of rent and time to find a new tenant.
* Forget calender months.
* I'll assume this is now a Statutory Periodic (if it is Contractual Periodic, ignore the following):
* what date did the Fixed Term end - let's assume 2nd of month?
* so tenancy periods are 3rd to 2nd
* notice served on 5th Feb
* so notice runs from 3rd March to 2nd March
* tenancy ends on 2nd March
* (of course the critical date is when fixed term ended)

See:
* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

However, I repeat: forget being legalistic and simply discuss this amicably and agree a date. Why make a mountain out of.........

Guest101

clivoclivo wrote: »

I guess it's just principle now: they agreed on renewing, failed to return signed contract which they try and work in their favour now. So already excepting a month loss, they then can't even give proper notice by giving a full month. Talking about a few days of £390 here.

You can't claim verbal contract if you then sent a written one to be honest.

You sent it, they didn't like the terms so refused to sign.

You can try 'fall back' on the verbal, but what are the terms. They argue you agreed on 2 weeks notice? Then what?

agrinnall

Artful (post #11) has said all you need to know to be a good LL.

FBaby

The wise landlord will accept the notice (stone me, if served correctly we're probably only talking a few days..) and get on and re-let. Inflexible, stiff landlords give the decent ones a bad name (ditto tenants and all that...). You never know, you may get more rent & come out ahead....

Funny how the 'wise' landlord is expected to show flexibility with binding the rules, but the 'wise' tenant goes for everything they can even if they haven't suffered any damage (ie, suing for not being handed PI).

I agree that OP has to accept that the agreement wasn't signed and therefore 2 months can't apply. However, there is no reason not to apply the terms of the contract and write back to make clear that rent is due until X date as per the terms and any unpaid rent will be deducted from the deposit.

Pixie5740

When tenants sue for deposits not being protected or PI not being issued it's not because the tenant has suffered any losses. The money awarded by the court is a penalty and since the tenant is the one who has to take the time and effort to enforce the penalty then they are the ones who get the money. There are many tenants (myself included) who could have sued but chose not to.

In order to have as short a void period as possible the OP will want to get the property advertised pronto and hold viewings. A harmonious relationship between landlord and tenant could mean a bit more flexibility from the tenants when it comes to viewings if the landlord is a bit more flexible about notice periods. Everyone is a winner.

If the OP is going to get upset about something like this then he (or maybe she) isn't really cut out to be a landlord.

FBaby

Who says that the tenant in this case didn't pretend that they were extending just so that it avoided OP starting to advertise and asking people to be shown around?

As a result of this, it is indeed very likely that OP will not get a new tenant as early as he would have otherwise...so why should he allow the tenant to go a few days earlier when the decision of the tenant has most likely caused him to lose out financially?

The money awarded by the court is a penalty and since the tenant is the one who has to take the time and effort to enforce the penalty then they are the ones who get the money.

This has no logic. How could any tenant justify that the time and effort taken to enforce the penalty cost them 3 times their monthly rent?