TPS fine - Cambridge - what do?

edited 12 February 2016 at 9:14PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
36 replies 3.2K views
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  • edited 12 February 2016 at 9:17PM
    Socks0rsSocks0rs Forumite
    20 Posts
    edited 12 February 2016 at 9:17PM
    Soz to bump this again guys n' girls, but I just wanted to get a final approval on this thing...

    I have determined that it is indeed the Cambridge Retail Park where they claim an incident supposedly occurred, which is monitored by TPS. The beehive centre is across the road and they are monitored by Parking Eye.

    So... how do I write this thing exactly? To be honest I have a fairly limp letter at the moment, which is:

    To whom it may concern (I figure "Dear" is too polite for degenerate sub-human thieving scum)

    I am replying in concerns to a letter I received recently regarding a supposed PCN. The letter suggests that an outstanding payment is due for an incident that supposedly occurred in 2014. This is so long ago that I have no details of any such incident. Please send the full details and I will respond further.

    However, from memory I do not believe a contravention occurred and thus the debt is denied.

    Furthermore it is my understanding that the Cambridge Retail Park has no planning permission for the cameras and signage and that a retrospective application is currently being made hastily by TPS.
    I suggest that the matter be dropped immediately or I will be inclined to publicise this information. (Do I take all this chit out cos we've established it's not the beehive anymore?)

    Sincerely,

    My name (they already have my name on the letter sent)

    I mean is this all I write? Does it need tweaking or extending with stuff? I mean you guys seem to know what you're doing so I'd really appreciate it if you just tweak my letter accordingly and then I can go about sending it.
    Formality, legality and professionalism are not my forte. I'd sooner just call them satanic cocksuckers and use excessive profanity, but I'm also smart enough to realise such an approach doesn't often go down well...
  • edited 2 February 2016 at 10:53PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 2 February 2016 at 10:53PM
    Furthermore it is my understanding that the Cambridge Retail Park has no planning permission for the cameras and signage and that a retrospective application is currently being made hastily by TPS.
    I suggest that the matter be dropped immediately or I will be inclined to publicise this information. (Do I take all this chit out cos we've established it's not the beehive anymore?)

    Yes I think remove that as it's not the Beehive Centre. Make sure you quote your name and postal address (they already have it anyway) and put a heading of course with 'your ref: {then the PCN number}'

    You could add:


    Yours is not a Letter before Claim, compliant with the Practice Direction and pre-action protocols and it should never be for a member of the public to point such failings out to a firm of solicitors. If you are acting in a debt collection capacity only, you have failed to make this clear and I am minded to report Premier Solicitors to the SRA.

    Cease and desist with letters such as the one sent to me. I will consider a further letter like this as indicative of a course of harassment.

    It is an aggressive but baseless demand which provides no clear information whatsoever, fails to to meet debt collection guidelines and is in fact, so woefully inadequate, late and misleading that it would meet the definition of 'unfair' in the Consumer Rights Act 2015. If the company which allegedly issued a 'parking charge' to a vehicle for which I was listed as the keeper several years ago, actually believe they have a cause of action then their Letter Before Claim must provide all of the information required to enable me to make an informed response. Dates, details, alleged overstay in minutes, detailed timings, copies of all photos taken and information as to the grace period applied (a requirement of the BPA Code of Practice). I will also require proof that this third party had authority from the landowner to pursue charges in the parking company's name and that planning permission was in place in 2014 for the signs and ANPR cameras.

    It is not acceptable to refer to some previous documents that I may or may not have received regarding an occasion where the driver has not been identified. I will not be attempting to name the driver after two years and have no obligation to assist in this regard, nor can any inference be drawn because the POFA 2012 positively enshrines the rights of a registered keeper in regard to private parking charges.

    I will also require a copy of the Notice to Keeper itself (actual exact copy, front and back) so I can check it against Schedule 4 paragraph 9 of the POFA 2012. It is my understanding from researching this dubious industry having received your intimidating threat, that this parking company have never issued compliant NTKs and therefore, cannot lawfully pursue me as registered keeper. Further, you appear to be unaware that the POFA sets a ceiling on the amount that can be pursued from a keeper, at the sum of the parking charge only, no additional surcharges or debt costs can be added.

    No further correspondence will be entered into in the absence of a compliant LBC. I am aware of the ParkingEye v Beavis case and that speculative invoices are now being resurrected by BPA members for old cases; a practice which smacks of scraping the barrel in the hope that the public will believe that every 'parking charge' is enforceable. This is clearly not the case here and I put you to strict proof of all evidence requested above if your client fails to cancel this now.

    I trust the charge will be cancelled forthwith.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Yours is not a Letter before Claim, compliant with the Practice Direction and pre-action protocols and it should never be for a member of the public to point such failings out to a firm of solicitors.

    Is the grammar or wording off here? Trying to make sense of this line and it's evading me...
  • DollyDee_2DollyDee_2 Forumite
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    Reads fine to me, however, you could say

    Yours is not a Letter before Claim compliant with the Practice Direction and pre-action protocols. A member of the public should not have to point out such failings to a firm of solicitors.
  • Letter sent!

    Figured I'd post a quick reply thanking everyone (especially coupon lady) for all their input and advice.

    Cheers all.

    Here's to hoping these scam artists stop bothering me.
  • edited 12 February 2016 at 9:20PM
    Socks0rsSocks0rs Forumite
    20 Posts
    edited 12 February 2016 at 9:20PM
    UPDATE

    Right... pretty much bad news all around unfortunately :/

    Premier Solicitors replied by mail with the following:

    1) They still want their £105 paid, but with a new deadline of 15th February.

    2) They replied with details and photos of an incident from way back when, and apparently a 14 minute overstay occurred.

    3) Also, apoarently they DID send a letter before claim - of which they've provided me a copy of. They sent it back in Jan 15. I can honestly say I have no recollection of receiving this.

    I'll just write out the most important part of the letter
    • The fact that the Vehicle exceeded the maximum stay time of 4 hours at the site. The Vehicle was observed at the site for a total of 4 hours and 14 minutes. This is a breach of the Terms and Conditions of the site which were agreed upon parking at the site.
    • Please find enclosed with this letter photographic evidence of the contravention and copies of the previous correspondence sent to you. However, no response or appeal had been received.
    • Furthermore, you state that the Practice Direction on Pre Action Protocol has not been complied with. However, we would note that our letter dated 27 January 2016 were reminding you of the PCN and did not constitute a Letter Before Claim. We had previously sent a Letter Before Claim, however, no response was received from you.

    So experts... what do? Where do I go from here...
  • RedxRedx Forumite
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    well , for a start you read the BPA CoP , clause #13 , grace periods

    because if we allow say 5 minutes to park and read the signs at the beginning, plus 11 minutes or more to leave the site, the 14 minutes is the grace periods book-ending the actual parking time

    plus recent popla verdicts have said that if ANPR cameras are used the signs have to be clear as to when the charging time actually starts

    the BEAVIS court case verdict stated that the BPA CoP has the rules set out inside it so should be adhered to

    so more grist for the mill
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
  • edited 10 February 2016 at 12:30AM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 10 February 2016 at 12:30AM
    Bad news?! Not sure what you expected but of course they would reply like that. They were hardly going to cancel it and you did ask for information which has assisted you - but not caused you any problems at all IMHO.

    If they really had sent a LBC in January why would they have sent this new letter within a week or two, 'reminding you of the PCN'?! They aren't likely to be telling the truth! They are acting as debt collectors even though there is no 'debt'. Their agenda is to say anything to try to convince you to pay up. Don't.

    You need to stop thinking you are at fault, did you not smell a rat about the 'LBC' that never was, followed by a 'reminder' - an order of letters which makes no sense?! An LBC should be followed by small claims paperwork if they are really going to try. Sounds like debt collection letters to me, something and nothing...

    You also need to stop beating yourself up about 14 minutes within a 4 hour stay time, based upon ANPR camera timings (driving time) not parking time. As Redx says, the BPA Code of practice requires TWO grace periods. A reasonable amount of minutes after driving in, to drive around looking for a space and then after you get back to the car, at least ten minutes to load bags in, start the car, queue and drive out.

    So now think again about those 14 minutes and take on board that you did not breach the BPA code of practice at all - arguably, TPS did!

    Work on another response based on what we've told you now - read the BPA CoP, Google it. By the way have you already implied you were driving or have you been careful to only talk about the 'driver' in the third person? Hope you have not implied the driver and can therefore also use the POFA 2012 to show you can't be liable as keeper of this car.

    We'll help you with some email tennis with Premier - or are you having to waste stamps each time?!

    Last thing - what happened when you complained to the various Store Managers at the Cambridge or Beehive Retail Park, brandishing these offensive and threatening letters and asking one of them to step in and cancel it because you are a local genuine shopper being pursued over 14 minutes which wasn't even the parking time. COMPLAIN. Then go into the next shop and COMPLAIN even of you never shop there (some Store Managers are better than others). Finally if you draw a blank with all the Store Managers - don't talk to the CS desk staff only - ask for their Head Office contact details and use them. It is never too late to complain to the retailers.

    M&S should be a good bet, as should Toys R Us if you are regular shoppers and can show it (not sure I have the right side of the road?).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • pustitpustit Forumite
    188 Posts
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    this link might be useful. It resulted in a win
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80158
  • edited 12 February 2016 at 9:21PM
    Socks0rsSocks0rs Forumite
    20 Posts
    edited 12 February 2016 at 9:21PM
    Soz peeps... been a tad busy. Frankly this chit couldn't have come at a worst time (just quit my job the other week, but I guess that just makes it all the more important I don't pay a ridiculous fine) and to say this issue is an unwelcome distraction would be an understatement...

    However - I'm nothing if not steadfast in my resolve...

    So... here's a draft... mull it over and suggest how I should revise it, or tell me what I should add/remove, so on and so forth, etc.

    I read BPA COP and the last link provided... both good chit... I imagine if this letter fails I might have to do something similar to incident described in that link...

    Addressing Coupon lady: I don't believe I've referred to myself as the driver in any capacity. As you saw from my previous letter, I basically claimed to have no knowledge of anything at all.

    In concerns to the letter I received from you dated 8th February 2016:

    Firstly – As clearly stated in my previous letter to you: I have never received a Letter Before Claim from Premier Solicitors concerning a supposed contravention. Furthermore, I find it highly dubious that the only letter I have received from you (besides the most recent one), was a reminder dated 27th January 2016 – one whole year after the supposed LBC you claim to have sent…

    Secondly – Thank you for a sending information concerning the alleged contravention. However, I noticed you ignored my request to be sent information concerning the grace period applied and proof that this third party had authority from the landowner to pursue charges in the parking company’s name and that planning permission was in place in 2014 for the signs and ANPR cameras.
    It is my contention that the parking company breached the BPA code of practice in regards to grace periods. The BPA COP requires TWO grace periods – a reasonable amount of minutes after the driver has entered the premises to look for a space, and then a minimum of 10 minutes for the driver to load bags in, start the car, queue and finally drive out. To suggest a contravention has taken place or any losses have been incurred over a 14-minute period is absolutely ridiculous.

    Thirdly – If I receive any more offensive letters threatening for payment, please be assured that you will not receive any payment, but instead my immediate course of action will be to speak directly to the store managers of the retail and service outlets on the Cambridge Retail Park – in particular Pizza Hut, Starbucks, Boots and PC-world – all of whom I provide generous amounts of trade.
    I am certain they will be aghast to see the extortionate nature of your claims and more than inclined to provide me with support so as to ensure my repeated custom and to finally put an end to this ridiculous harassment.


    Sincerely,


    My name
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