A Diary of Reinventing Ourselves

Forward_thinking

Getmore - yes, yes, no.

Gettingthere - thanks for posting those questions - have made a note of them. You are right, this is a steep learning curve. And perhaps most importantly, thank you for your last few lines. I gave OH a really difficult time last night and even questioned our marriage. I think you might be right. We are going to be busy and it is proabably vital we stick together and support one another rather than pull apart (which if I'm honest is my natural instinct at the moment).

Can anyone put me out of my misery and direct me to the SOA tool? Can't find it anywhere....

getmore4less

http://www.stoozing.com/calculator/soa.php

Forward_thinking

Thank you!!!!! Just come across budget brain - tonight's task is to look at this and YNAB. I need to put all these figures neatly somewhere - it's so messy!!!! Right, wish me luck. Time to calculate.

Forward_thinking

Still lots of wiggle room but it's looking better. The only thing I am confused about is input of credit information. I have put in the minimum payment but not added on the £600 we have to pay in interest. I presume I need to factor this into the final figures ie. £1,500 - an additional £600 to allow for the interest. This is only SOA2 - more amendments to be made. And then me out to work.

Household Information[/b]
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household......... 4
Number of cars owned.................... 2

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 7000
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 7000

Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 2200
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 276
Electricity............................. 130
Gas..................................... 0
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 97
Telephone (land line)................... 45
Mobile phone............................ 20
TV Licence.............................. 12.12
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 37
Groceries etc. ......................... 700
Clothing................................ 90
Petrol/diesel........................... 300
Road tax................................ 0
Car Insurance........................... 0
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 30
Car parking............................. 5
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 300
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 85
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 0
Life assurance ......................... 60.95
Other insurance......................... 304
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 250
Haircuts................................ 100
Entertainment........................... 0
Holiday................................. 200
Emergency fund.......................... 0
School dinners.......................... 84
Pension................................. 100
Cleaner................................. 70
Total monthly expenses.................. 5496.07


Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 0
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 0

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Barclay card...................8370......230.......21.9
MBNA...........................18660.....700.......29.9
Halifax........................725.......14........29.9
Parents........................18000.....0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........45755.....944.......-


Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 7,000
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 5,496.07
Available for debt repayments........... 1,503.93
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 944
Amount left after debt repayments....... 559.93

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 0
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -45,755
Net Assets.............................. -45,755

Created using the SOA calculator at https://www.stoozing.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.[/font]

Forward_thinking

:(It's gonna look a whole lot worse when OH decides to work out how much we need to put back into the company

Forward_thinking

Just realised I'm wrong. The interest is put back onto the bill.....please humour me - this is all new learning for me. How glad I am I didn't go into accountancy. So if that's true, and we keep to this budget we could put the extra £559 into the company each month. A grain of sand really but it's a start. And when I get earning we can throw more at it.

Right, once I have this on a spreadsheet it is time for me to focus less here and on bringing income in.

Forward_thinking

At least if we stick to this we are not slipping anymore each month! And that is crucial!!

m4rc

Good afternoon FT, just been catching up and wanted to offer a virtual hug. Keep going, I know this is really tough.

I have a few little observations and comments as always.

I think your OH is struggling with this more than you think. Yes he is totally wrong to have used the terminology he has been using, and he misses the point so badly, but I do think he blames himself. He is coming round slowly, but he needs to make the decisions himself, and he's very proud by the sound of it.

Is doesn't mean you don't tell him and talk to him about it, but I wonder if you told him once then left it there. He isn't forgetting about it, he thinks it over and things happen eventually. If he honks you are not pressuring and he's made the decision himself it seems to happen quicker and he's happier about it. You are not telling him to buy a reduced frying pan, he did that himself. Teeny example, that's not what I mean as this isn't about a frying pan, but it's very symbolic and shows his head is in the right place.

Most importantly he is thinking of you, the water and potatoes shows that.

In my opinion I think you need to come clean in 'some way' about talking to his parents. He knows, he's not stupid, and the longer it is before it clicks into place or someone admits it the bigger deal it will be. There are some ways you could soften it, I wonder if you talk to them and ask if they would be willing to ones who were concerned and asked you if everything was OK. That's not far from the truth as you broke down when asked, but if they thought things were difficult they could have asked. They seem lovely by the way.

The other way involves a bigger disclosure really, it would be a little messy but would get everything out in the open.

If you told him how it really happened, how you broke down, he would want to know why, he would be cross but I think more cross that he didn't realise how much this stuff is affecting you, if my wife opened up like that I'd be gutted I'd missed it and too busy to notice, and I'd want to fix it because I love her. He is protecting you for this reason, but he's missing the issue, and you are not really telling him.

All he sees is you are suddenly trying to change everything. He knows there are money problems, but he wasn't thinking about them, and you are making him think about them when he wants you to work. If he knows how you really feel I think there may be some shouting and arguing but do wonder if it will be so much better that, no matter how much he doesn't want to hear it, you are not willing or able to live like this anymore and if he loves you he will stop burying his head, stop denying, stop pretending he's protecting you, and instead open up and be totally honest so you can work together to fix the big mess you are in.

You are a married couple in an equal marriage, men don't (or shouldn't) treat women like they did in previous generations, managing he money and slipping £20 in her purse once a week so she can do the shopping and buy something pretty, in a modern loving relationship you share the good and bad stuff equally and you work out the problems between you. He can't just refuse because he doesn't like it, that's just tough, he expects you to go and do as he wants (start your business) so why shouldn't you have a say in his life? If you did get the business going and make a success of it as I'm sure you would, will he expect to just carry on and let the debts swell as he's only paying the interest off still? If so what's the point?

I know you won't let that happen, but you need to work together. I know you love him, but you defended him more than you should have from the very first post in the previous thread, when you thought it was all going to be OK and he was buying into it others doubted it, he's kind of playing a game, he does the little stuff to keep you quiet. It's almost as if he's fiddling around in the spoon drawer....

His mum and dad can handle him, I should think they are being incredibly careful to protect you, but if it's all in the open I'm sure dad would tell him he's wrong. I know my parents would, in fact they do whenever they get the chance. Would I hate it if my wife spoke to my parents behind my back? Yes, but that's because I knew I was wrong and I shouldn't be hiding stuff. He's acting like a child who's been found out, he's making a lot of noise, stamping his feet, slamming the bedroom door and saying he wants to run away and never come back but we all know he won't, he just hopes by 'shouting' you will back down. My little girl will cry if I tell her off so my wife will run to her and tell me off for shouting. So I just stand my ground as long as I'm not being stroppy or grumpy about something, if she is in the wrong I have a right to tell her, and the crocodile tears won't stop me.

Sure he can lease a car for £300 a month, that's only £10,800 he's wasting over the next three years. Small change considering the rest of the debt he's pretending doesn't exist. It won't be a £300 lease though will it, it will be £320, or maybe £350, in fact it could be £400 for a nicer model. Get the car from his parents, buy a private plate for £100 and nobody will know how old it is. At least it's your car and you get to keep more money to get those debts down. He needs telling, not asking, he's being stubborn, he needs to get over it. So what if it's not a new car, he may have to live like the rest of the country, like,the average person who can't afford the latest everything. The funny thing is in reality he can't afford it either, the family certainly can't. He's spending your new house, he's spending the kids uni fund. He will argue about the expense of running a car, you need fuel and insurance on a lease car, so all he saves is maintenance, and that is not going to cost £300 a month. You guys in reality have less disposable income than someone living alone and working in McDonald's.

You have a right to say this stuff, he won't like it, but that doesn't mean you can't say he you feel does it? If he doesn't like something he says it, he isn't considering your feelings with many of his actions / inactions, so I don't see why you should be so gentle and careful around him. This isn't going to be the greatest moment in your marriage, but it will make you stronger. Ultimately what is the option? If nothing is going to change how far into debt are you going to go until you can't take it? At what point is it all too much? You are the one who questioned your relationship, I know it was a passing thought but you had it, he needs to know is stuff is a big deal and if it isn't sorted it can and will break you.

Lastly, he is far too obsessed with you working. Yes you need to, I think it would be good and something you will really enjoy, but at the same time you need to do it for the right reason. I'm not convinced he wants you to work because you are so well qualified and it would be a waste, although of course he does think that, but I believe he wants you to work so everything is ok, as your money will mean things can get better. But he can't tell you that, so he says the other stuff. I wonder if he has sat in the past and thought we can pay that once the wife is working so it will all be fine. Nothing wrong with planning for the future with two incomes, but you can earn the equivalent of double the income if you got the debts down and the budget sorted. That means you don't have to work flat out all day every day, you can work to suit you, when you want, not out of same goes for him, if you didn't have the money problems then if/when his contract is up he can take time to find a new one without stress and pressure. It's easier to find work when you are happy, hardest when you are desperate.

I honestly believe we should, where possible, enjoy our work and do what we are good at. Not everyone is that fortunate, but you are. However you will be working to fill the hole, not build the mountain. Your income should be able to go into a pot ready to buy that house, it shouldn't be needed just to catch up with the mistakes of the past. If you do nothing and work you will slowly crawl out of debt as long as everything else remains stable. Your husbands debts with the company are an issue you may be able to pay down but not in the next couple of years with any impact. However if you made lots of savings from your current budget and changed the way you guys live you would be better off financially as it is and clearing debts, if you then build your business on these happier positive foundations your income will see all the debts cleared and all the current financial problems solved in a very short space of time. To start a business from scratch and make a profit is a challenge no matter how talented you are. To do it under pressure is harder. To do it knowing this has to work for the future of your family and it needs to happen fast is unreasonable pressure you don't need, and it's going to challenge you.

It all needs to come together at the same time, you need to be strong as a couple working to the same goals, you need to sort your budget out, get the expensive lifestyle in check, realise that normal people don't have cleaners and £600 a month hire cars and that you work together as a family and you do have to pick up a duster sometimes, and you need to start and build your business knowing it is not to fill a hole, it's to build a mountain.

I genuinely wish you all well.

getmore4less

With the credit cards you put the min payments and as long as they cover the interest(which they should) then all that changes is the debt levels each month.

If the min payment does not cover all the interest and charges it needs adjusting or paying, to stand still.
(thats all you need to do for now make sure the debts don't get bigger)

What you need now is a commitment that he can deliver £7k a month and stick to this level of spending.
He can keep any extra back in the compnay to fix that problem.

I would keep any surplus in the family accounts for now for wiggle room and any unexpected thigs that crop up.

If after a few months you are keeping within the spends then you could drop the £7k down if needed

Hubby need to do his bit now which is work out how bad the company accounts mess is and create a plan.

JUst realised you have missed off the hire car, at £600+pm you are still over

Forward_thinking

Can't stop - had to bring one of the children home. M4rc - you're brilliant and make many valid points. Will absorb in detail and respond later. Getmore - you have also been brilliant and really helped provide info when I'm losing. Yes, hire car is not on there - but that's going in the next week or so....:exclamati