Need some advice RE a PTFA / parents group

jaibaby

Hi guys, I'll try and keep this as simple as possible.

My daughter started at a new school in Sep 2011. I immediately enquired about a PTA - and attended the meeting shortly afterwards. However, it came across to me that the head teacher didn't think highly of any ideas that were given and their attitude was "I finish at 3.30pm" - so any events after school would be manned by other teachers taking time out or not at all.

Over 18 months or so, we had one more meeting. No AGMs, any ideas were quickly squashed and at the last meeting (about 3 years ago) there were 3 parents and 10 staff members, so it was obvious we were failing to get the support from the parents. The head spoke about disbanding it, but we were determined to make it work. It didn't though, any ideas that got through the heads "net" never happened and, as I said, meetings fizzled out completely.

Fast froward from 2013 & the last meeting to November 2015. I set up a group on Facebook as I was tired of reading posts from parents of the school that they'd "never received letters", in this group a discussion started about the PTA and the lack of fundraising at the school. So, off their own back, a friend set up a new group - which aims were exactly that of a PTA, to fund-raise through events held in conjunction with the school to enable us to purchase items / equipment for the pupils. We had our first meeting this week.

We got down on paper what we were aiming for (same things as a typical PTA), we just wanted to ease the burden off the teachers that had organised the odd event when the PTA was up and running. Once we'd advertised our meeting and invited anyone who wanted to support us, we had a letter sent home from school stating they'd arranged a meeting for the "PTFA" - literally, two days after I put the post on facebook with the dates of our meeting. So we assume it's because of that.

Anyway, I had a meeting with the head to put forward our ideas and what we wanted to achieve. Somehow wires were crossed and they now seem to think we don't want any teachers involved at all - which is total rubbish, we wouldn't get anywhere without the teachers support!

After speaking to the head again today about organising a non-uniform day to raise funds to purchase something for the pupils before Easter, I get the impression that the school want to distant themselves away from the group now.

Can anyone point me in the direction of legal things we have to abide by - we've got a constitution, we've elected officers (Chair, secretary, treasurer), we know we have to open a bank account and I've mentioned we need to apply for charity status.

I understand how a PTA works, but we're basically starting from scratch so feel like it's my first day at school

Savvy_Sue

I don't know that there's anything legally you need to do: not even apply for charity status which I think would be massive overkill.

Why not look at the http://www.pta.org.uk/ website?

Thinking back, I don't think we ever had staff attending our meetings: occasionally some of them would help out at events but I didn't expect it. Although they did appreciate what we were trying to do. This was primary: I didn't get involved at secondary I'm afraid.

paddyrg

Maybe the school is anxious that you're going to create a lot of extra work/burden for them then disband? I'd suggest having a chat about your charter, and maybe adopting a policy of 'teachers welcome but not required' or similar. Get things moving on your own, create momentum, and people will be attracted to the energy and success once they see you're operating independently and are an asset to the school, not creating drag

pleasedelete

A non uniform day is not a suitable PTA activity. You don't have to mange the hyper children all day, the issues over who is wearing what or the collection of the money. Non uniform days are suitable for national charity days such as red nose or children in need or for non fund raising such as world book. There is minimal organisation. Most schools limit these days as they do disrupt the day.

You need to plan out of school activities that can be solely run by the group and are not reliant on other staff (other than the caretaker to lock up- but realise that has a cost to the school and isn't free). That means that if you have a disco you need enough adults to control the children.

No staff (including the HT) can be required to attend. They may chose to. Many schools have a 'friends of' and involving the wider community and more staff (teachers are often the minority of staff in a school) to get away from the parent teacher idea.

Often the money raised in no way equates to the amount of staff time involved which may be why the school are not too keen. You needing a few hours of a TA of admin time takes that time away from the children- school staff are tightly timetabled these days- it isn't like 10 years ago when support staff had general roles.

Staff won't do Facebook as they shouldn't have parents or children as Facebook friends- have you thought that they hadn't seen your Facebook link?

You tried to set up your own group with out discussing it with the school? But you expect them to manage event such as non uniform day, provide their staff and their building?

You need to meet with the elected parent governors.

Does the school need money for items?

You need to have a clear strategy. Do you want social activities or to raise money? Some school 'friends of' just have social events (so break even). Others have a mix.

You need insurance.

lincroft1710

If teachers aren't getting involved, how can it be a PT(F)A?

Pennywise

My experience with schools (as a governor for a short time) is that heads won't welcome any ideas that aren't there own and don't fit in with their plans. Being presented with ideas and events by anyone else don't go down well at all. The best way is to let the head say what they want and then for the PTA to make it happen. By setting up on your own without the support of the head, you'll alienate them.

jaibaby

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I don't know that there's anything legally you need to do: not even apply for charity status which I think would be massive overkill.
Why not look at the http://www.pta.org.uk/ website?
Thinking back, I don't think we ever had staff attending our meetings: occasionally some of them would help out at events but I didn't expect it. Although they did appreciate what we were trying to do. This was primary: I didn't get involved at secondary I'm afraid.

Thanks, I had tried to look but it seems for most pages you have to sign up

paddyrg wrote: »

Maybe the school is anxious that you're going to create a lot of extra work/burden for them then disband? I'd suggest having a chat about your charter, and maybe adopting a policy of 'teachers welcome but not required' or similar. Get things moving on your own, create momentum, and people will be attracted to the energy and success once they see you're operating independently and are an asset to the school, not creating drag

We've done all this and seem to have the backing by words. I just felt something was a bit off but after a further chat with the head, everything's on the right track, well almost!

pleasedelete wrote: »

A non uniform day is not a suitable PTA activity. You don't have to mange the hyper children all day, the issues over who is wearing what or the collection of the money. Non uniform days are suitable for national charity days such as red nose or children in need or for non fund raising such as world book. There is minimal organisation. Most schools limit these days as they do disrupt the day.
You need to plan out of school activities that can be solely run by the group and are not reliant on other staff (other than the caretaker to lock up- but realise that has a cost to the school and isn't free). That means that if you have a disco you need enough adults to control the children.
No staff (including the HT) can be required to attend. They may chose to. Many schools have a 'friends of' and involving the wider community and more staff (teachers are often the minority of staff in a school) to get away from the parent teacher idea.
Often the money raised in no way equates to the amount of staff time involved which may be why the school are not too keen. You needing a few hours of a TA of admin time takes that time away from the children- school staff are tightly timetabled these days- it isn't like 10 years ago when support staff had general roles.
Staff won't do Facebook as they shouldn't have parents or children as Facebook friends- have you thought that they hadn't seen your Facebook link?
You tried to set up your own group with out discussing it with the school? But you expect them to manage event such as non uniform day, provide their staff and their building?
You need to meet with the elected parent governors.
Does the school need money for items?
You need to have a clear strategy. Do you want social activities or to raise money? Some school 'friends of' just have social events (so break even). Others have a mix.
You need insurance.

Thanks, ours is a "Friends of" group - we only had a meeting because there were no PTA meetings being set up and I didn't want to go to the head and say "We have this idea of a group but that's it." After further talks with her she seems pleased with everything we've suggested so far and currently have a non-uniform day coming up

We want to bring parents together to raise funds to purchase items for the kids - whether that be something the school requests (such as playground markings that have been mentioned) or parents suggest (such as vouchers for good attendance etc.)

Anything that is suggested will always be put to the head to say yes or no before it goes ahead. As for facebook, I know the school secretary & a few TAs are in the group I put the link in as they commented on it.

Pennywise wrote: »

My experience with schools (as a governor for a short time) is that heads won't welcome any ideas that aren't there own and don't fit in with their plans. Being presented with ideas and events by anyone else don't go down well at all. The best way is to let the head say what they want and then for the PTA to make it happen. By setting up on your own without the support of the head, you'll alienate them.

Yes, I get that but the head has said they support us and look forward to working with us since I posted the original post. I think I was just overthinking things.

Thanks for your help guys xx