Got a PCN from ANPR Ltd at residence

MrWrong

Hi there,

I hope someone would do me the favour of some advice on this. I was just about to send ANPR Ltd a three line challenge letter but happened to google them just now and obviously turned up some interesting stuff.

If I can outline the situation: I am a letting agent (yes, one rung above clamper) and a tenant I found an apartment for came to my office to show me this PCN posted on their windscreen. I was going to tell them it is between them and ANPR Ltd, but then I changed my mind. Their English is not great and even though they have done nothing wrong, I reckon they will mess it up or be intimidated into paying.

I felt a bit sorry for them and want to help. And the principle of the thing winds me up. Even more so now that I have read about ANPR ltd.

Once again, I believe they have done nothing wrong. The reasoning stated on the PCN is "No permit on display" but they do have a valid permit (I gave it to them on behalf of their landlord) and I am certain it was on display.

Their apartment is in a gated development with parking spaces. They have been requesting the parking permit from us because they wanted to use the spaces. Does it sound like they would then not display it? The only thing of note is that the permit says "Attach to rear view mirror" but they tell me it does not fit well there and so they slipped it into where the tax disc used to be. Obviously still very visible.

I said I would write the challenge letter since at the time I thought it would be an easy couple of lines with a copy of the permit enclosed. I have seen the photo on ANPR Ltd's website. It is at night and from a good number of feet away. You cannot tell if a permit is displayed or not. I called ANPR Ltd and told them this and they said "if you want additional photos you have to write to us via Royal Mail." (That struck me as a bluff also. I doubt they have other photos; they just bank on people not bothering.)

So even if I thought the permit was not displayed it seemed like an easy challenge. But I totally believe these tenants that they displayed the permit.

Now I am less sure of what to do. I have read the sticky which states not to even respond to them since they no longer have the ability to get Keeper's info from DVLA, but is that still the best course of action in this case? Would it not be the case that ANPR Ltd already have an address for this car? The permit has my tenants' address and reg number on it, and I assume this permit is issued by ANPR ltd? If so they can look up the car reg in their records and retrieve the address. (But perhaps not a name.)

So do we respond to this PCN or not? And if so, what do we say? FYI, the PCN has the passage about them having breached their contract so they get to claim £100 compensation from my tenant. The signs at the premises say similar. So that does not reflect genuine pre-estimate of loss is that right? So if I respond I am asking for details of their contract with the site owner, and details of how they came to the figure of £100? (But in the wording from other threads)

Anything else I need to include? Or am I just advising the tenants to ignore it even though ANPR Ltd might have their address?

Or do I simply do what I was going to do and send them a couple of lines saying they have a valid permit that was displayed and enclose a copy of the permit? (That has their address on it.)

Many thanks.

MrWrong

England btw

hoohoo

ANPR Ltd have been kicked out from the BPA so they cannot get the keepers address from the DVLA. Getting it by any other means does not count. Therefore this means that keeper liability does not exist.

It also means that there is no access to an outside appeals body. So if you appeal, you will just get 'appeal denied'.


Should they be kicked off the site? It's actually not a bad position to be in to have a bunch of no hopers in control as long as all the residents know tickets must be ignored. If they get kicked out, you run the risk of the Red Hill Gang taking over. They are even worse, running a quasi-approved appeals service which always rules for the operator.

My advice. Ignore the ticket. Leave the operator in place. Spread the word around the residents.

BiscuitMuncher

@MrWrong, will done for posting this and fighting on your tenants behalf.

Umkomaas

Follow hoohoo's advice to the letter. The last thing your tenant should do is contact ANPR Ltd in any way, shape or form.

If he/she gets any correspondence from them which includes their name and address, get back pronto.

As a footnote - what a daft idea to show actual address details on the permit. If that's on show while your tenant and car are somewhere else in the country, it might just encourage a scally visit!

pappa_golf

Mr Wrong , perhaps yourself and the company you work for should boycott sites infested by this non regulated entity


also , tell other letting agents what you have found (about this company) and ask them to follow.


the owners of said properties need to be told to remove said company or loose money


ANPR Ltd cannot "do" parking charges as such , they go for the "trespass" angle , however it is themselves that try to gain money for this , not the rightfull owner of the land.


I think you need to get of the landowners leases in front of your solicitor's eyes and have it checked out , can a person that has a valid lease by sued by the land owner or his agent?

Herzlos

You're much better leaving a toothless muppet running the parking situation, as you can ignore him entirely. You don't want him to be replaced by someone with DVLA access and a pretend appeals system.

You certainly want to obscure any name/address details on the permit though, as you don't want him to be able to do anything other than litter your windscreen with pretend tickets, which he'll stop after a while anyway.

pappa_golf

perhaps we need to wait for the upcoming government changes ?


a PPC that is governed and fightable is better than a snake that sends out false court papers , sends papers to wrong addresses , invents a debt collection company and goes for defaults .


maybe N Martin knows the site "personally"


I say that the OP should show the landowner what he thinks of hiring a non regulated company and boycott sites like this .


regulation was brought in for a reason , companies like ANPR are just taking the Pith out of the government and regulation.




the OP may find that the land owner or himself are breaking terms if they are a member of a trade body , by hiring companies that are not registered with there trade body .


a large managing agent was severely "wrapped on the knuckles" about 6 mths ago for this and terminated ANPRs licence immediately , as did Preston council and several shopping complexes.

Coupon-mad

I was just about to send ANPR Ltd a three line challenge letter

Do nothing but just keep the fake PCN in a drawer marked 'scam'. Tell the tenant they will hear no more about it (because they won't - but do not let on you've ignored it because it worries people) and if they get another PCN in future, to bring it to you and never contact ANPR Ltd.

Simple!

Which idiot decided to use this bunch of chancers on site, who were kicked out of the BPA and can't get anyone's data from the DVLA? The most they can do is slap fake PCNs on windscreens with as much clout as a flyer for a local car boot sale. NOTHING CAN FOLLOW.

As long as no-one appeals, nothing can happen. DO NOT WRITE. Spread the word in your office and you will be popular with the tenants because all the while ANPR Ltd are the dipsticks on site, you are easily able to 'sort' any PCN by placing it in the norty drawer!

Fruitcake

MrWrong wrote: »

Now I am less sure of what to do. I have read the sticky which states not to even respond to them since they no longer have the ability to get Keeper's info from DVLA, but is that still the best course of action in this case? Would it not be the case that ANPR Ltd already have an address for this car? The permit has my tenants' address and reg number on it, and I assume this permit is issued by ANPR ltd? If so they can look up the car reg in their records and retrieve the address. (But perhaps not a name.)


Many thanks.

If a parking scumpany does not know the drivers' details (deliberate placement of the apostrophe after the s to denote that more than one driver may exist) they must obtain the registered keepers' details from the DVLA.


A name and address on a permit is not necessarily the details of a driver or a keeper on the day in question. (Note, the keeper is the person in charge of the car who may or may not be the driver and may or may not be the registered keeper.)

ANPR cannot assume the name on the permit is that of the driver and cannot get the driver or keeper details unless your tenant tells them. The best way not to tell the PPC is not to contact them in any way shape or form. So, instruct your tenant to ignore any PCN from ANPR, but not to ignore a ticket in any other car park in England or Wales.

Coupon-mad

No, they can't have an address for the car (they won't, honestly) and even if they'd gleaned one, they cannot lawfully use it to allege 'keeper liability' which applies only in certain strict circumstances. Not here.