Less than 5 minutes a valid reason to refuse to pay a PCN?

The_Slithy_Tove

Skewiff wrote: »

Ive just received a FCN (Fixed Charge Notice) from Capital2Coast for not displaying a ticket in a pay and display in Worthing on the 15th. It mentions that a notice was attached to the car. There was no notice on my car. The photo also shows no notice on the car.

Might as well go with the assumption that a ticket (Notice to Driver) was attached to the car. If so, then they have sent the Notice to Keeper too soon to be able to pursue Keeper liability under POFA. You could also complain to the DVLA that C2C have abused their access to the database by applying for details while the opportunity to pay (not likely!) or appeal the NtD was still running.

Skewiff

So , I now have further responses, after they sold my "debt" to MIL collections. I have to complete my defence online this week. Looking at mitigating circumstances, I am a little worried that 5 minutes to read the signs and ask a question in the nearest shop isnt the strongest one Ive ever seen online.

Are there any supporting rules for this defence choice? Any online guidance or Highway Code style documents that lend strength to this defence?

Thanks again

Skewiff

I heard little after the January help you gave me. I received a Debt Recovery Plus headed letter in July threatening me with court action and mentioning Beavis. Im sure loads of them have been shown here.
In October I had a letter before action from MIL telling me the debt was purchased. It doesn't explicitly say that they bought my personal details too , but it is addressed to me. A similar letter came in from Coast2Coast (One Parking Ltd) stating that they had sold their interest in this debt to MIL.
On 3/11 I received an N1SDT form from the County Court Bulk Centre telling me that MIL want £235 total from me, with a response pack. I have logged in online and acknowledged it, and have a little bit longer now to write my defence before this moves on.

So the defence is vital for me now. Ive read most of the links you shared and see that Coast2Coast "may" have gone out of business, but I cant see how that helps me with MIL now.
I can see that actively pursuing a defence is good - as I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I can see that MIL are a poor company in terms of success and have a terrible reputation.

Now I am need to write my defence. I have already got the 2 paragraphs regarding the assignment of debt being valid. I have written to complain to the DVLA and ask if I had my details given to MIL. The remaining defence, I am struggling with - as I believe I need to challenge MIL - and also defend myself regarding the original incident.


I read a section somewhere that said in a section 15.1 I believe that I am allowed reasonable time to read the signage, but I cannot find the PDF or page I read that on.
I also think having the request via letter only, nothing on the car is important too?
But - writing a defence is daunting - Ive watched too much Suits , Im not sure where to start. Other defences are much more open and shut, wheels being outside lines, poor details etc. I dont have that, all I have is my view that I should be allowed time to read the signs, ask a question , get told to move my car into the Halfords as they are nice and do so before getting charged.

So , am a little worried now, as I need to do something in my defence, but am daunted.

pappa_golf

nice of capital2coast to say they had sold your debt , now contact the DVLA and find if they had permission to do this , then follow it up with a breach of DRA claim

Skewiff

DVLA wont care about the right to sell debt? Do you mean that I can ring the DVLA and ask them if they gave my details to MIL ? If they didnt, then I can mention in my defence that they got my personal details "illegally" ?
if they did, they had no right to do so ?

Redx

no , he means that under the dvla KADOE contract that C2C had they cannot divulge your details to a 3rd party, in this case to MIL, so its a breach of the DPA and can be reported to the ICO

this has been covered many times in previous MIL threads

search champerty in the search box and read similar MIL threads both on here and over on pepipoo forums too

and you should be WRITING to the DVLA , to get stuff "on paper" , not ringing them up (no paper trail)

unrecorded phone calls wont help you in court !!

Skewiff

Got it, sorry - getting there. I have written (emailed?) the DVLA now in order to prove that MIL had my details in breach of the Data Protection Act and so I can report them to the ICO.
I have a copy for my file and will add it to my defence "package" as I write it.

Coupon-mad

Skewiff wrote: »

So , I now have a court date, after they sold my "debt" to MIL collections. I have to complete my defence online this week. Looking at mitigating circumstances, I am a little worried that 5 minutes to read the signs and ask a question in the nearest shop isnt the strongest one Ive ever seen online.

Are there any supporting rules for this defence choice? Any online guidance or Highway Code style documents that lend strength to this defence?

Thanks again

So glad you asked!

YOU MUST read other MIL defences, this is not about mitigation!

There are certain things to say!

Have a look at cueball's thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5528717

and 'TraceyWimbledon' is just ahead of you:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...2182&page=2

as is 'Spook104' who has shown his/her defence:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5542413

And also search and read posts by HO87, the resident expert on MIL defences. Here's a start-to-finish successfully defended pepipoo case against MIL:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=105272

I have logged in online and acknowledged it, and have a little bit longer now to write my defence before this moves on.

So the defence is vital for me now.

Good, so you have not got a court date but have to write a MIL defence.

We can help with that and in fact I'm writing one at the moment for a person in Brighton who posted on pepipoo, so I will have a look at your draft and let you see what I write for the other person, so you can use all the defence points possible.

I suggest you EDIT YOUR FIRST POST URGENTLY.

Remove the words implying who parked/what happened, or edit it like I have:

the driver was apparently not displaying a ticket in a pay and display in Worthing on the 15th January 2016. It mentions that a notice was attached to the car. There was no notice on the car. The photo also shows no notice on the car which was there for around 5 minutes.

What is the date of the court claim? I know you said you got it 3 weeks ago but what date was on it?

I also suggest you go and get urgent pics of the signs or are C2C no longer there? What location in Worthing?

Skewiff

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AqJ5vNWGO3GbhPoA9VP5Js0uzf0EnQ

So, 28 days from the 3rd I believe : As my daughter would say, the 31st November

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AqJ5vNWGO3GbhPoDPNI-pvoJ-STfRQ
Hopefully shows the signs, which are of hard to read font size. The car image shows the ramshackle nature of the parking here. The car park is by Halfords in Broadwater.

Umkomaas

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AqJ5vNWGO3GbhPoDPNI-pvoJ-STfRQ
So, 28 days from the 3rd I believe : As my daughter would say, the 31st November

You'd have a specific date for a court appearance, not a '28!days from .....' date.

Your photo link shows nothing regarding the court date.