Definition of a partner for purposes of benefits

kentguy07

I am struggling to figure out the definition of a partner

Does not sharing assets get taken in to count?
Does the lack of intimacy as is no intimacy get taken in to account?
How about not sharing bills and bank accounts?

Let's say the only thing that resembles a relationship is the fact that you hug?

Housing_Benefit_Officer

kentguy07 wrote: »

I am struggling to figure out the definition of a partner

Does not sharing assets get taken in to count?
Does the lack of intimacy as is no intimacy get taken in to account?
How about not sharing bills and bank accounts?

Let's say the only thing that resembles a relationship is the fact that you hug?

Sounds like most marriages

jfdi

I know there's an official explanation for partner and benefits, but I always think - if you got a wedding invitation from your best friend, who would it be addressed to?

Just you? Or to you and Mr/Ms X?

If friends, family, neighbours think of you as a couple, whether or not you live together, have a physical or platonic relationship or whatever, then you have a partner!

If it would just be addressed to you, or you +1, then you have a boyfriend/girlfriend.

Guest101

kentguy07 wrote: »

I am struggling to figure out the definition of a partner

Does not sharing assets get taken in to count?
Does the lack of intimacy as is no intimacy get taken in to account?
How about not sharing bills and bank accounts?

Let's say the only thing that resembles a relationship is the fact that you hug?

Whilst definitions vary, it's typically living as husband / wife and/or living as one household.


(i'm sure the official definitions are more complex)


Typically this means that you both live in the same property, that property is the main residence for both parties, that you expect to share your life (e.g. you go on holiday together), food is bought mutually and meals cooked as a collective.


Certainly other aspects include intimacy, financial dependence and or financial links.


What's the actual situation?


Example:
2 people who live together, share a child, but otherwise are completely independent and therefore are not a couple have been deemed as single

Guest101

jfdi wrote: »

I know there's an official explanation for partner and benefits, but I always think - if you got a wedding invitation from your best friend, who would it be addressed to?

Just you? Or to you and Mr/Ms X?

If friends, family, neighbours think of you as a couple, whether or not you live together, have a physical or platonic relationship or whatever, then you have a partner!

If it would just be addressed to you, or you +1, then you have a boyfriend/girlfriend.

That's close to the official to be honest.


The only real bit is the living together. If there's two homes, one for each. Even if they share a bed 7 days a week, they aren't 'partner's' in the legal sense - in terms of benefits.


It comes down to you don't necessarily sleep where you live, or live where you sleep.

Darksparkle

For tax credits - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/TCTM09300.htm

Guest101

Darksparkle wrote: »

For tax credits - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/TCTM09300.htm

Here's the problem I have with this:


The Tax Credits Act 2002, Section 3(5A)

A couple means:

• a man and a woman who are married to each other and are not:

• • separated under a court order, or
  • separated in circumstances in which the separation is likely to be permanent

• a man and a woman who are not married to each other but are living together as husband and wife (LTAHAW),
• two people of the same sex who are civil partners of each other and are not:

• • separated under a court order, or
  • separated in circumstances in which the separation is likely to be permanent, or

• two people of the same sex who are not civil partners of each other but are living together as if they were civil partners (LTACP).

As HBO pointed out, LTAHAW literally can be a joyless, sexless 'relationship', in which two people just share the same space and nothing more. Which could easily define many joint tenancies. As example 1 illustrates:


Example - joint claim, married couple
A married couple with children have grown apart and rarely spend time together. He eats most of his evening meals at the pub but still lives in the family home and occasionally contributes towards the household bills. They decided not to separate until their children have grown up so they should make a joint claim as they are still married and not separated legally or in circumstances where the separation is likely to become permanent. - In this very example, it's clear that they intend to separate permanently once the kids grow up.

Example - joint claim on marriage
Two people who are in a relationship but who each lives with their respective parents marry but continue to live separately with their respective parents so they can better save for a deposit on a home of their own. They should make a joint claim from the date of their marriage. - This is clear enough.


Example - joint claim, couple who live together
Two people who are in a relationship and previously lived at separate addresses decide to live together prior to them getting married. - So if they don't plan on getting married? From the date when they start living together as husband and wife they should make a joint claim for tax credits. This may not be the date they move in together as they may choose not to live together as husband and wife until they marry, for instance due to religious beliefs.


It's far too complicated and open to interpretation.

Darksparkle

Guest101 wrote: »

Here's the problem I have with this:


The Tax Credits Act 2002, Section 3(5A)

A couple means:

• a man and a woman who are married to each other and are not:

• • separated under a court order, or
  • separated in circumstances in which the separation is likely to be permanent

• a man and a woman who are not married to each other but are living together as husband and wife (LTAHAW),
• two people of the same sex who are civil partners of each other and are not:

• • separated under a court order, or
  • separated in circumstances in which the separation is likely to be permanent, or

• two people of the same sex who are not civil partners of each other but are living together as if they were civil partners (LTACP).

As HBO pointed out, LTAHAW literally can be a joyless, sexless 'relationship', in which two people just share the same space and nothing more. Which could easily define many joint tenancies. As example 1 illustrates:


Example - joint claim, married couple
A married couple with children have grown apart and rarely spend time together. He eats most of his evening meals at the pub but still lives in the family home and occasionally contributes towards the household bills. They decided not to separate until their children have grown up so they should make a joint claim as they are still married and not separated legally or in circumstances where the separation is likely to become permanent. - In this very example, it's clear that they intend to separate permanently once the kids grow up.

Example - joint claim on marriage
Two people who are in a relationship but who each lives with their respective parents marry but continue to live separately with their respective parents so they can better save for a deposit on a home of their own. They should make a joint claim from the date of their marriage. - This is clear enough.


Example - joint claim, couple who live together
Two people who are in a relationship and previously lived at separate addresses decide to live together prior to them getting married. - So if they don't plan on getting married? From the date when they start living together as husband and wife they should make a joint claim for tax credits. This may not be the date they move in together as they may choose not to live together as husband and wife until they marry, for instance due to religious beliefs.


It's far too complicated and open to interpretation.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've always known if I live on my own or if I'm in a couple.

I lived at home with parents - was single.

My OH and I talked about living together, when we did we would consider ourselves a couple.

To me the issue only really comes up if a couple have separated but still live in the same household

Thank god I don't make the rules or the decisions!

Guest101

Darksparkle wrote: »

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've always known if I live on my own or if I'm in a couple.

I lived at home with parents - was single.

My OH and I talked about living together, when we did we would consider ourselves a couple.

To me the issue only really comes up if a couple have separated but still live in the same household

Thank god I don't make the rules or the decisions!

No I agree with you totally.


The definition is bonkers though and so is the implementation.


Some people are worried that their BF/GF cant stay over more than a certain number of nights - which is just madness!


Others like you say live separate lives in all but address and are a couple.

FBaby

A married couple with children have grown apart and rarely spend time together. He eats most of his evening meals at the pub but still lives in the family home and occasionally contributes towards the household bills. They decided not to separate until their children have grown up so they should make a joint claim as they are still married and not separated legally or in circumstances where the separation is likely to become permanent. - In this very example, it's clear that they intend to separate permanently once the kids grow up.

By which time they can claim separately. It's clear to me that 'intend to separate' implies in the near future as no one can be certain of what they will do in years to come, even if they feel strongly about it in the present.

Guest101

FBaby wrote: »

By which time they can claim separately. It's clear to me that 'intend to separate' implies in the near future as no one can be certain of what they will do in years to come, even if they feel strongly about it in the present.

That's fine, we all have opinions.

But that's the problem, the definition isn't clear.

To me they intend to be separated permanently. My opinion no more or less valid than yours.

I mean let's define near future? I intend to have a beer, buy a house and get a new job in the near future.

1 in next 10 mins, 1 in couple months and one in couple years.

As for not knowing how we'll feel. The basis of marriage is predicting that you intend to share your life with one person, so again it's how they feel at that time.