Railway Penalty Ignored Best Course of Action?

Canyon_2

Hello, I've done a lot of reading and tried really hard not to write a new post but I can't find enough recent info on the railway Byelaw examples to be sure of the approach.
In summary -
The car was parked in a bay in the station car park (SW Trains) and a ticket was purchased.
The driver of my car was issued a Penalty Notice (on windscreen) for parking in a restricted bay (poorly signed).
As the ticket was from a PPC we ignored it not realising that was an outdated approach.
64 days after the alleged infringement I received an NTK not from the PPC but Parking Collection Services (they dated the letter on 56th day after the alleged infringement but unless they walked it here they didn't post it then).
The Penalty Notice is issued under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000...

I have made no contact so far so my thought process is as the registered keeper to write to CP Plus (Not Parking Collection services) asking for more detail of the infringement and evidence as this is the first I have been made aware of it. Then assuming they respond I would use a letter about poor signage and request the POPLA appeals process.

Does that make sense? As far as I can tell the railway rules are different to general car parks.

Any help appreciated.

pappa_golf

await more advice regarding railway land , however I was going to point you to another cpplus/railway incident on pepipoo (they clamped him) , pepipoo website is down but you can read the thread here http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t103849.html

Coupon-mad

PCS are a trading name of DRPlus so in fact I would write to THEM if this was the first letter. This is a Notice to Owner I presume? Blue & white letter like this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5144197

If so then you can appeal but don't rush it. With a bylaws PCN, you want to string out the appeals process because once they get past 6 months they can't enforce a penalty. It would have to be referred to Magistrates Court by then. It won't be, because PCS don't follow that route.

So, look what the NTO says about appeal deadlines and slowly, slowly catchee monkey. Limp slowly towards POPLA if it's offered, don't panic if it's not. Have the six months date set in your sights.

pappa_golf

cheers CM


OP watch out if you are using that site again , DO NOT pay by cash or debit card (clamping)


phone police and get SIA number if this happens

Canyon_2

Thanks both.

Coupon-mad. The PCS letter is blue and white but is titled "Unpaid Penalty Notice - £120". Despite saying in the small print under complaints follow the appeals procedure detailed above, there is no appeals info given like the example you pointed me too!

So I'm thinking of writing to them stating this is the first I have heard of this as the registered keeper of the vehicle; asking what their appeals procedure is as the driver has evidence of purchasing a ticket on the day of the infringement; what evidence can they show of where the car is parked as no notice was found on the vehicle.

Does that make sense?

BTW I have 28 days to pay to avoid further action according to the letter. I am on day 20 from the date they have marked the letter (only received on 13th though).

Coupon-mad

Yes that does make sense. If you've never been sent a NTO or NTK, you as keeper had no chance to appeal.

Doesn't matter about the threat of 'further action'. All that means is the usual DRPlus and Zenith letter chain! Shown in the NEWBIES thread post #4 - letters that are predictable, cause no 'action' except for you to open the envelopes and laugh at them!

Canyon_2

Hi All,

16 days after writing to PCS they replied to my email to them not actually answering my question of what their appeals process was but taking my email to be an appeal. They unsurprisingly stated the ticket was issued correctly, in all likelihood the driver had received the PCN and they provided photos which demonstrate it was parked in a restricted area. It also shows the writing on the floor is faded, partially obscured by another vehicle and there is no eye level signage.

I have until the 24th to pay up ( I have also received a DRS letter in the mail to pay by 23rd) and the letter restates that this Penalty Charge Notice was issued under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000, Railway Byelaws section 14. It also says that if i'm not satisfied with the appeals process I can write to South West trains.

Any suggestions on the best way forwards? Write to SW trains and back to PCS stating actual grounds for appeal is poor signage? Should I press them on whether this is a civil or criminal matter?

Coupon-mad

Interesting!

PCS - a pathetic debt collector, a trading name of Debt Recovery Plus, who never get the paperwork or deadlines right - doing the back office function for SW Trains, eh? You only have to get this to six months past the event and it cannot be pursued as a byelaws matter (not that this particular matter falls within byelaws anyway).

You said:

The car was parked in a bay in the station car park (SW Trains) and a ticket was purchased. The driver of my car was issued a Penalty Notice (on windscreen) for parking in a restricted bay (poorly signed).

Well AFAIK the only section 14 byelaw offence possible is failure to pay the tariff. The driver did not fail to pay the tariff. The driver cannot be pursued under the byelaws.

You also said:

I have also received a DRS letter in the mail to pay by 23rd

You mean Debt Recovery Plus? Same firm as PCS. Don't rush a reply because you just want to string this out, slowly, to the six months. So start an email comunication line with DRPlus and don't write to SW trains.

Wait until 23rd (ALWAYS DELAY YOUR RESPONSES) then being careful NOT to imply the driver, email:

info@drpl.co.uk

Say you have received conflicting letters from DRPlus and PCS yet you know one is a trading name of the other. Ask them how come PCS have told you this is a byelaws offence under section 14 when it is not because the driver paid the tariff and 'parking out of a bay' isn't listed as a byelaws offence? And conversely, why is DRPlus threatening county court if PCS are threatening Magistrates Court? And why was POPLA not offered if it's a private PCN?*

State you are the registered keeper and ask how exactly are DRPlus saying you are liable for this matter?


Come back and tell us the answer. I hope they say you are liable under the POFA...surely they wouldn't be that daft but let's hope so!



* BTW I know why POPLA wasn't offered - SW Trains not being in an ATA. The point is to ask DRPlus these questions...

Castle

Coupon-mad wrote: »

* BTW I know why POPLA wasn't offered - SW Trains not being in an ATA. The point is to ask DRPlus these questions...

The OP mentions CP Plus in their first post; a BPA member.

Coupon-mad

Castle wrote: »

The OP mentions CP Plus in their first post; a BPA member.

That's interesting too, missed that. So there SHOULD be a POPLA code. Canyon, surely the rejection letter offers you a POPLA code?

Canyon_2

Coupon-mad. As Castle says CPPlus manage the parking but the first correspondence was from PCS.

I've read the relevant part of section 219 bye laws and the only part I can see that could possibly be used is this paragraph. -
(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall
park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an
Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at
the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or
an authorised person at that place.

But that seems a bit open to interpretation.

The follow up letter was indeed from DRPlus and no POPLA code was offered from their rejection.

And conversely, why is DRPlus threatening county court if PCS are threatening Magistrates Court?

Neither are specifying which court but both mention the bye laws.

So should I still go ahead and write to DRPlus or back to PCS? Should I request a POPLA code?